00:00:00.520 — 00:01:28.040 · Speaker 1 Let's be honest. Most of us were taught to wait our turn to tone it down to save it for later. Later, when the kids are grown. Later when the timing is right. Later when you finally stop caring what they think. Well, I'm done waiting. I'm Hannah Henry Bell, Texas divorce lawyer, mom and woman who rebuilt her life from the wreckage. This is not saving it for later. The podcast guiding women through divorce and beyond. The place where we stop whispering about what's hard and start talking about what's real. Marriage. Divorce. Money. Motherhood. Faith. Sex. Power. No filters, no fake empowerment BS, just straight talk and practical truth for women who are done pretending that everything's fine because your next chapter isn't waiting on permission. And neither are we. And I am here today with such a special guest. Her name is Sarah. Glaucous and Sarah in my. I'll tell you what, she is in my mind as we get started. But she's a money honey. I guess that's how I would think about it. Sarah, um, is when I think of you, I think of like a woman who equips and educates, uh, other women about finances. But I don't know, how would you introduce yourself to everybody who doesn't know you? 00:01:28.040 — 00:01:55.160 · Speaker 2 I think that's really kind. That's a really kind way of of saying it. Um, certainly my my passion. Is anything around money, investing, finance, women having women in a room together, talking about money, planning about money, and really having those conversations that I think a lot of us maybe didn't have growing up, maybe don't get a ton of opportunities to have now, depending on who we're hanging out with. But that is absolutely my passion. 00:01:55.200 — 00:01:58.710 · Speaker 1 Well, Sarah, what made you get passionate about that. 00:01:59.070 — 00:02:01.150 · Speaker 2 I don't know if I ever told you this, but I. 00:02:01.310 — 00:02:14.430 · Speaker 1 Literally am like. Sarah and I are friends in real life, and I'm curious, like, what we just kind of met. Already taken for granted. I'm a divorce lawyer. You're a money gal. What got you passionate about doing this? This way? Because Sarah does it different. 00:02:14.470 — 00:04:08.070 · Speaker 2 Yeah, well, I mean, when I first moved to Austin in 2001, I'd graduated from college with no, no job, no prospects, and I moved to town, and I had a dinner with my boyfriend's dad's colleague's son and the girl that he wanted to date but who didn't want to date him. And she knew a guy at a family law firm who needed a legal assistant. What? So that was my first job out of college. Like, again, no experience in family law, but kind of thrust into this area that you are the expert in. Yeah. And so you're coming in fresh out of college. I do not have I did not have a finance background in college. I took one personal finance course. But being in that family law world and watching women getting divorced and just thinking to myself like, oh my goodness gracious. Like, these women are not ready for what is happening. They, um, in many cases, at least at that time, it was very difficult to figure out what the assets were, what was separate property? What was community property? Um, there was a pervasive thought that that the woman would keep the house and the the ex-spouse would continue to pay the mortgage, and that these are just kind of the, you know, that she would be taken care of. Um, and it often didn't turn out that way. Right. That isn't really the way the world works. And so I think seeing that up close firsthand, like one of the most devastating, uh, financial events that can happen in a woman's life made me think, like, there has to be a better way. Right. There have to be more conversations that women are having with each other and with their daughters, and with their sisters and their friends and their mothers, so that people are coming into really this type of life event, but all life events with a working knowledge of how the money works? 00:04:08.070 — 00:04:09.590 · Speaker 1 I had no. 00:04:09.590 — 00:04:11.710 · Speaker 2 Idea. Isn't that funny? I know. 00:04:11.830 — 00:05:15.140 · Speaker 1 Well, I mean, I see it, I get it because I could see someone young and learning and getting into this very quickly. You'll see what we see at the firm. My law firm in Austin. Um, help. Help where? We help marriages end. Well, like, we see that all the time, where people, women in particular will come in with this misconception or, I don't know, ill founded demand or desire that. Well, yeah. I mean, I'm going to get the how he cheated. So I'm going to get the house, I'm going to get that. And they have no grounding in reality and no information. Right. Because information is power. Absolutely. And so when you have the information And that's what we've created. This this divorce prep guide called my Confident divorce. And that's a big thing we talk about is like just getting the information together, um, helps you not be as easily manipulated or taken advantage of. But one thing I've seen as a family lawyer is it's usually the women. It's not. This doesn't really happen to guys, in my experience. 00:05:15.180 — 00:05:16.020 · Speaker 2 Not very often. Right? 00:05:16.060 — 00:06:27.820 · Speaker 1 Right. But the women will come into their divorce and for the first time ever, literally ever look at a tax return? Yes. Have to pull up a bank statement, have to figure out what his 401 K is. And so I you know, I've thought about that over the years. And I'll tell clients I've told them this. If you're one of my clients, I may have told you this before. Never again after we're done with this and we're going to get you out and get you your fair share, never again are you going to put yourself in a situation to be so beholden, to be so in the dark about your own finances. I say that Sarah, as even in my own life, I don't live this out as good as I should. I mean, I have pretty rudimentary understandings and workings of money. I grew up with my parents paycheck to paycheck, not having anything leftover. Really? Um, stocks was like, what is the stocks? I mean, theoretically, I kind of know because they taught it to you in high school, but, um, and then, you know, my most sophisticated financial decision would be to have a high yield savings account, which is a good decision. But I literally just finally did it for the first time this year. 00:06:27.900 — 00:06:28.620 · Speaker 2 Congratulations. 00:06:28.620 — 00:07:28.340 · Speaker 1 Yeah. Thanks. Um, and I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool. That actually gives you new money that you didn't otherwise have, right? What if I would have been doing this all this time? And so I say that like I have an MBA, I have a law degree, do this for a living. And yet I found even in my second marriage, I was convicted about this of, like, I'm preaching to them about this, and I don't. I don't know, I'm like, well, my husband handles that. Like my husband handles the retirement account. Yeah. All that. I didn't have the log ins. I had to get a code sent to his phone so that I. One day I was like, that's it. I'm on all the accounts, get logged in to all the places. Okay, so if even me. Right. A couple degrees in or whatever, let alone the whole spectrum of women that might be listening to this. Why is it do you think, that we do get ourselves in such situations where we've completely delegated, abdicated, given away our power over our money? 00:07:28.380 — 00:07:39.300 · Speaker 2 Wow, that's a really good question. I mean, I think that if I'm thinking about my experience in the conversations I've had, the first reason is fear. Fear of the unknown. 00:07:40.420 — 00:07:43.700 · Speaker 2 Most people, especially around money, 00:07:45.460 — 00:07:46.260 · Speaker 2 don't 00:07:47.340 — 00:07:57.810 · Speaker 2 have those conversations with their loved ones as children or as young adults. And so if you've never had a conversation about money, how can you have a conversation with your spouse? 00:07:58.890 — 00:09:34.450 · Speaker 2 It's scary to bring up. I don't know if you've had this experience, but many, many, many women have had the experience of being told that it's not ladylike, it's rude. It's gauche to talk about money. Right? So do you want to be seen as that type of woman who talks about money? It's rude, right? Many girls, many women are given that that message. I think in marriage, bringing up the concept of money is often taboo because marriage is about love, right? And so you don't want to be seen as a gold digger. You don't want to be seen as, um, being outside your lane. And when reality in reality, what this all kind of ends up being is, you know, you said information is power and it is. But money is power, right? And money only comes from two places. It comes from income And it comes from assets, right? Those are two kind of treacherous I think areas for most women like income around career, working inside the house, working outside the house. What are all of those really difficult decisions that women need to make and assets you need to learn about investments. You need to learn a whole different language of stocks and bonds and high yield savings and real estate and mortgages and all of those things. And the way the financial industry is set up, I think on purpose, is there's a whole language that you need to know in order to navigate it with confidence. And, you know, it's possible to learn that language, but it's not a native language to almost any woman I've ever met. 00:09:34.650 — 00:10:51.250 · Speaker 1 Well, and you know, what I'm thinking as we're talking is there's something there, I think, about women feeling inadequate, um, where, you know, it's just facts. Men earn more money. The average man earns more money than the average woman in the United States of America. Right. So we earn less. Generally speaking, I don't claim that for myself or anybody listening, but it is just some facts if you do it. So it seems to me, Sarah, there's something there about a phrase like being an ostrich about it putting her head in the sand, because then you don't have to face the uncomfortable feeling of, I don't have as much as I should. Yeah, I don't earn as much as I think I'm worth. I made decisions in my life where I put my career on the back burner, and maybe I don't love those decisions and this makes me face it. Maybe it's fear that when I look like I don't have enough and I'm not going to have enough when I retire, which everybody tells me is the point of money anyway. So if I don't have enough money whenever I retire. Like what? Um. You know, what does that say about me? And I think there's something about we're willing to Not know which has. It's treacherous. It is treacherous to not know about your money. 00:10:51.290 — 00:11:14.490 · Speaker 2 It is absolutely a it is risky. Its. I don't know if I can think of a riskier thing to do than to abdicate all responsibility for the money in your life. It it I can see. I mean, I think the points that you're making are so important, right? Like, it feels 00:11:15.530 — 00:11:17.730 · Speaker 2 scary to, 00:11:19.010 — 00:11:19.450 · Speaker 2 uh, 00:11:20.530 — 00:12:08.120 · Speaker 2 to to admit or to think that you are not going to be okay in some way because of decisions you've made or, uh, what I always tell people is that my favorite thing about finance, right? Like, I'm a finance person. So if you're an accountant, you know, you you take these transactions that happened and you put them into categories so you can tell what happened in the past. That's accounting. Right? But what I love about finance and investing is that it's forward looking. So you take where you are today, and you're making new decisions about what you expect will happen in the future. Hmm. So the story that people come into the office with. Right. Like people come into my office. It's nothing like people come into your office, I'm sure. But people come to the office. It's like going to the dentist. 00:12:08.160 — 00:12:09.000 · Speaker 1 Oh, it's like that. 00:12:09.040 — 00:13:09.639 · Speaker 2 I love investing in finance, so I'm always excited when people are coming in. I'm like, oh, we're going to let you know, make some plans and we're going to like create some strategies. This is going to be great. And it took me a really long time to realize that people aren't coming in very anxious and very upset, because all of the things that you just said are things that they're telling themselves in their head, and they may or may not be true. But what I love about what I do is that it it matters in some sense. But we start over from today, right? Whatever the decisions are that you made in the past. We start with new decisions tomorrow, and it's really empowering when you start getting that money story into people's brains, into people's vernacular, instead of the ones that I think are most common. Um, it is it's it's it's fear. Almost always. It's, um. I'm afraid of what this says about me. I'm afraid of what it says about my marriage. Um, certainly. I think there is 00:13:10.800 — 00:13:12.280 · Speaker 2 a discussion around 00:13:13.440 — 00:13:38.159 · Speaker 2 gendered roles very often, if a married couple comes in, uh, the husband has kind of been given the responsibility for being the CFO and being the money person, and he doesn't necessarily want it. Right. It's a lot of pressure to be making all of those decisions, especially if you feel like you're on your own. So, um, by the time people get into the office, I think it's because 00:13:39.200 — 00:13:59.280 · Speaker 2 women want to be that partner and or their spouses asked them to be that partner in financial decisions so that they're not making all of the decisions single handedly. Certainly, on the other end, you have spouses that are taking that power for more nefarious reasons. 00:13:59.280 — 00:14:24.480 · Speaker 1 Well, and I probably see a lot more of that than you direct, right? Because you're seeing people who are, you know, forward looking, trying to make some plans or after divorce or something doing the same thing. They they come to us when they're maybe is some treachery or something happening. Because what I'm, what I'm thinking about is you said money story and I think that means something to you. I think that's a term of art. What do you mean, money story? 00:14:24.760 — 00:14:26.560 · Speaker 2 Yeah. So recently, 00:14:27.640 — 00:15:35.350 · Speaker 2 with some of the work I've been doing with some organizations around town, the YWCA, Greater Austin, certainly in the Austin Women's Investing Group, we've been spending time thinking about Financial therapy. And that it's a it's a subset of therapy where one of the things they focus on are the money stories that play in our heads, that impact nearly every decision that we make. And those money stories come from somewhere. Most often they come from our parents. Right. Or the families that where we grew up. And so you can if you think about it, you think, well, why does the thought of opening a high yield savings account make me nervous? Why does it. Why do I get a pit in my stomach? When I think about asking my husband how much money we have in the bank, right? Why is that? That you have those reactions to something that really is just like a transactional piece for a lot of people, not for for all people. But people often bring in these emotional responses to money. 00:15:35.390 — 00:15:37.070 · Speaker 1 That's not logical. 00:15:37.110 — 00:15:50.230 · Speaker 2 No, it's really important to think about where those stories come from, because most of the time, at least the money stories that I hear, they are not empowering money stories. 00:15:50.510 — 00:17:59.020 · Speaker 1 Well, for me, like I can just say. So I grew up, my parents, um, didn't go to college. I'm the first person in my family to graduate from college. They worked. My dad was a courier and my mom worked for an insurance and worked hard and made a good life for me and my sister, and it was always like, when's payday, right? There wasn't a bunch of money left over. I got, you know, no financial education whatsoever. Then, um, and it didn't feel like there was enough as much as certainly that I wanted or anything. And that was from the time I was born, obviously, until I went off to college and then beyond. And that became certainly my feeling and my emotions around money, like there's not ever going to be quite enough. And this scarcity mindset and that it was having money and like, you know, for Robux and IRAs and all those letters and all those numbers, that's for other people. Yeah. Having money is for like, other kind of people. I mean, I'm smart. I was valedictorian of this and that. Like, I've done good. I why I wouldn't have really believed and thought I never would have said to you at 18. Well, when I grow up, I'm going to be rich. I would have never thought that for me that was even a possibility. I mean, it just didn't occur to me. And I think part of that is about exposure. Experience. Like what? All I saw. I didn't even know what that would look like. I had no concept. I had no context for what it would look like. And so carry that forward. Um, you know, it's been said poor people got poor ways and it's like I would do the same. Even as I started to make some more money, I still treat it the same. Like I just said, I just got a high yield savings account. And you asked that question. Like, what comes up for you? And what I heard in my mind was, well, if I put it in there, then I'm not going to be able to get it if I need it right. That's what I thought. That's stupid. That's not true. Um, but for whatever reason, even now, when I wanted to put it and I knew logically this would return, you know, some percent of money every single month. And I've seen that add up and it's not insignificant. Right. And then that compounds, you know. ET cetera. The rich people know this, y'all, about compound interest. That's right. 00:17:59.140 — 00:18:00.820 · Speaker 2 It's the language of the wealthy. 00:18:00.860 — 00:18:16.780 · Speaker 1 Right. And but there is in in me still that story, even though I've come a long way. So for women who are thinking about getting divorced right in the middle of it, or maybe they're post-divorce, um, how do they figure out what their money story is? 00:18:16.820 — 00:18:24.340 · Speaker 2 I mean, I would say if you have the wherewithal to do work with a financial therapist, that's the place to start. Okay. Because these are 00:18:26.020 — 00:19:01.500 · Speaker 2 as a financial advisor, it is imperative that I understand that people are coming in with these money stories because it's the only way that I can advise them, right? I have to be able to figure out that. What is the question they're actually trying to answer? And what is the plan we're coming up with that they can actually live with, if you're not quite there, ready to go to a financial therapist? I really do think it's, you know, like the the therapy language of recognizing what's happening in your body when you're thinking about money. 00:19:01.660 — 00:19:02.380 · Speaker 1 Awareness. 00:19:02.420 — 00:20:22.140 · Speaker 2 Awareness, mindfulness, like, like what is happening. And then really just taking a minute to think about what memory does that bring up for you? Like, is there a memory that you can connect that feeling with? And we almost always can. Right. Sometimes it's something that you experienced. Like I'll find like my money story. I also grew up rural. I grew up on a farm. And all of us, going back through the generations, tie back to the depression. Right. I was not even close to being alive during the depression. Right. Right. But the stories of the suffering that happened in the family, and how frightened people were of not being able to eat because they, you know, sold the grain and the check that they got wasn't even enough, you know, for a week. Those stories get passed down to and they get ingrained in the lessons that we teach each other. So that is almost always where that scarcity mindset comes from. Like your your people in your family are doing the best they they could with the tools that they have. But many of us are years and generations away from that economic and financial trauma, but we carry it with us. 00:20:22.180 — 00:20:53.170 · Speaker 1 I think for me, it just I remember growing up and always be like, well, paydays next Friday. And my mom like using a credit card To help provide like the things my sister and I needed. And I'm so grateful she did that. But it came at a cost to her. I remember my dad getting really mad when he found out. Yeah, and some pretty big things along with that. So this idea that if we if I spent like if money was spent for what I needed, it would create a lot of debt and then the debt would get me in trouble. 00:20:53.210 — 00:20:59.530 · Speaker 2 Right. And it would cause, cause friction in your family. Mhm. And no child wants that. Right. 00:20:59.570 — 00:21:05.610 · Speaker 1 Have you Sarah advised your clients to use AI to help them process this. 00:21:06.090 — 00:21:12.530 · Speaker 2 Um, I don't know if this is an area that I think that AI is helpful. Hmm. 00:21:12.770 — 00:21:14.450 · Speaker 1 Say more. Ooh, there's something there. 00:21:14.490 — 00:21:49.930 · Speaker 2 Okay, there is something there. And there was just an article about this in the Wall Street Journal. Maybe it wasn't the Wall Street Journal, it was an article. I was just reading that at least the way that I use AI, it is. It's trying to please me. It's a sycophant, right? It's trying to get the right answer. What? However it's set up, it's trying to get a gold star for the answer it's giving me. So my fear is that whatever you are asking it, the advice it's giving you is reinforcing your own, the own views that you want it to reinforce. 00:21:49.970 — 00:21:50.690 · Speaker 1 Have you tried. 00:21:50.690 — 00:21:52.730 · Speaker 2 It? I have tried it. 00:21:52.770 — 00:21:53.450 · Speaker 1 Did that happen? 00:21:53.650 — 00:22:01.609 · Speaker 2 I can tell that it's trying to please me, and not necessarily provide 00:22:02.650 — 00:22:39.490 · Speaker 2 the in-depth analysis that I think a professional could. I'm sure with prompting that someone can be sophisticated enough to really like with good prompts, get insight into this. And I actually think that even the the field of financial therapy is fascinating. Just knowing what different money stories are. The way that I would use AI here is, is, um. I know that there are at least, like, kind of like four archetypes of money stories, and now I can't. Off the cuff, remember what they all are. But it's kind of like when you take one of those, like, a personality. Yeah. 00:22:39.570 — 00:22:40.890 · Speaker 1 Myers-Briggs. Right. Yeah. 00:22:40.930 — 00:22:51.210 · Speaker 2 Yeah. And you're like, oh, this sounds like me, right? Right. Like. And this is. Now I can recognize how this is showing up in my day to day spending decisions. Or, 00:22:52.330 — 00:23:28.160 · Speaker 2 you know, what conflicts am I avoiding? What conflicts am I creating in terms of money? Just so that you can be more aware? Because money is a tool that hopefully you can figure out how to use to get what you need and what you want to live your life. Right, right. Um, and we we put so much more into it, right? We put our own money stories and our feelings and our emotions into it, and we give it that power. But you can kind of back, I think back some of that power and that feeling out of it in order to make more, I don't know, more analytical 00:23:29.280 — 00:23:41.440 · Speaker 2 decisions that will probably work out better over the long term, versus doing everything on vibes, or everything by gut instinct, or everything based on how a decision does or doesn't make you feel. 00:23:41.520 — 00:24:54.160 · Speaker 1 Yeah, well, and I think with with the AI tools, you know, one thing I can imagine if somebody was messing with this, they could say like, talk to me like a very experienced money therapist who has a finance background. Da da da da da da. And don't tell me what I want to hear. Yeah. Give me, you know, objective counsel, etc. I just think that like for people who maybe don't have access to a financial therapist, like that would be great, but for all the rest of us. Right. Um, when you when you feel those emotions, like, I can imagine just opening it up, telling it those things and then saying, look, ask me questions that a financial money therapist would ask so we can help get to the bottom of what my money story is, and then help me figure out how that pattern may be playing out in my life. Because I want to break that. I want to be financially independent. I want to be wealthy. I want these different things. And I think something about my mindset is holding me back. Can you help? So I don't know. I mean, I think, you know, us as lawyers and financial people, we have to say, well, but try and go to the therapist. Yeah, go to the experts, of course. And in some ways, that little computer has access to basically everything that the world has ever known. Yeah. And can put it together. So maybe that's the thing they can do. 00:24:54.200 — 00:25:07.120 · Speaker 2 I mean, you are very good with off the cuff prompts. So you've been thinking about this a whole lot, right? How to get how to use AI as a thought partner. Not a sycophant. Not. You know. Right. 00:25:07.560 — 00:26:39.680 · Speaker 1 I cannot overstate the impact of AI as a that's a good way to say it. As a thought partner. The way I think about it is the way if I was going to assign an associate a job at the firm, and I think about it like how I would need to instruct them to do it, and I always think of like, like to get a plate spinning. It's how in my mind I do this. So like, okay, do it like this and not like this and format it like that, you know, so that the, the date, what I get out of it is the closest to what I'm trying to find. So when I'm talking to it, like when I first started really getting into it in this way, I fed ChatGPT and I think maybe somebody could do this in this area or some other AI tool I use. Casey ships AI, which is like an energy emotional. It's more that been not necessarily money and but so you're just using regular ChatGPT. I've fed it all of my personality assessments. I've given it so much hand of data, I've fed it transcripts of webinars I've done, I've fed it videos, things like that, so that it understands me, how I speak and all that. And then I've corrected. There's been some times early on where it would like make up stuff, and I never make up to me. Do not just try to please me. Right. So just giving some of those parameters. So anyway, I'm not trying to go all the most AI about this whole thing. However, To me, the conversation about money and women in divorce land going through this. We have to get it straight in our minds, in our mindset, because I think really a lot underlying women's money story is I'm not worthy. 00:26:39.720 — 00:26:41.400 · Speaker 2 Absolutely. Absolutely. 00:26:41.400 — 00:28:05.790 · Speaker 1 I'm not like me. That's what I was actually saying, if you think about it like, oh, that's for other people, right? Other people get to be rich, um, wealthy or whatever, right? Even saying the word rich feels stupid to me. Like that's something that poor people are like rich, right? Nobody I that even I know who we might say or rich would say that they're rich. Correct. Right. Um, but I think that it's something about, like me. I could have $1 million. No, Sarah. And I think for people listening to this, if they just, like, go inside, the way I feel it, I kind of feel it like, um, in my root chakra, right? Like, way down deep, kind of clench up feeling, if I'm honest and in my heart and in my chest, it kind of makes me like, short of breath and anxious. Yeah. Like fear. That's just fear. Yeah, right. And I think it's in your root chakra. Like for anybody who's into that, that's where our identity center is and safety and all of that down there. Right. And it's like, oh, this feeling. Oh God. Even though this is true, even though I've got enough money in the bank now. Yep. And I think about it differently in my mind I used to. But now I'd be like, yeah, I'm worth these things that I get paid because of all the value I bring in the heart that I bring and my own personal life I share with God and everybody all the time. The good, the bad, the ugly, whatever. So I've reoriented that. And even so, when I say, oh, that, well, that's for other people, these things, it's like it gets at our identity as women. 00:28:05.870 — 00:28:06.670 · Speaker 2 Absolutely. 00:28:06.710 — 00:28:25.469 · Speaker 1 Look, preparing for divorce is a different thing. They can do the divorce prep guide in the middle of the divorce. Listen to your lawyer. Do the things we told you to get your notebook together. Okay? But let's say we're a couple years out, and all of a sudden, he's not there to manage all the accounts. He's not there to manage the financial relationship. Like, how does she 00:28:26.750 — 00:28:36.470 · Speaker 1 begin again? How does she build a new. How does she build back better? How does she make sure? Never again. Does she have to fight in court for access to her own tax returns? 00:28:36.510 — 00:28:39.390 · Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, before. 00:28:39.390 — 00:29:00.670 · Speaker 1 We go any further, let me ask you something. What if you didn't have to Google your way through divorce at 2 a.m.? What if you actually had a place with real women's talk to real answers in real time? That's the circle. It's where I go live every single week, unpack the hard stuff and help you stop spinning. Go to my divorce 00:29:01.910 — 00:30:35.460 · Speaker 1 circle because confusion costs more than clarity ever will. I cannot wait to see you in there. A tool I recommend for every client that I work with, and every woman that I would meet on the street, is called our Family wizard. And y'all, this app, this website I changed my life. I cannot overstate its impact because we all know that the hardest part, once you're done with the whole divorce thing and you've got your papers, it isn't the decree, it isn't the calendaring, it's the communication. Because if you're in a situation like I'm in, you will get messages from everywhere text message, Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook. Now, I mean, it's even worse with all the social media, phone calls, direct messages, it goes on and on. But what our family wizard does is brings that all into one place. So you have one place to check for messages, one place to be interrupted from your daily life to deal with the whole co-parenting situation. And like in addition to the messaging, it does amazing things like tracks expenses in real time so you don't have to argue about who did what with what receipt. It does calendar entry. So you're not like, oh wait, sorry, I never got that invite. And you have that whole BS where you're not sure what to do. You can check in in real time If you're ever worried about an in future enforcement of the provisions in your decree or your judgment, this app changes lives and they've got special promotions and deals for listeners of the show. You can get access to those at our Family wizard.com/finding. 00:30:36.900 — 00:31:01.180 · Speaker 2 A person who can have these conversations with you. I think is of the utmost importance. Okay. That person can be a friend or a family member who's maybe experienced in money matters. Someone that you trust, who you aspire to be like financially, right. Who's like really educated in these things. It can be a professional person, but these are not 00:31:02.460 — 00:31:13.220 · Speaker 2 these are not things you learn overnight. There is the purely running the numbers version of finance where if. 00:31:13.260 — 00:31:13.940 · Speaker 1 Like a budget. 00:31:13.980 — 00:31:41.460 · Speaker 2 A yeah, it could be a budget. Your budget is your day to day. In and out. Right. So budgeting, personal finance, financial planning tends to deal with the short term. You need money in to balance with money out. That's rule number one. There's no other way around it right. So if you are short every month you have to figure out how to fix that shortfall. 00:31:41.500 — 00:31:44.180 · Speaker 1 Bring more money in or stop something going out. Exactly. 00:31:44.180 — 00:31:47.620 · Speaker 2 It's just the laws of arithmetic, right? 00:31:47.660 — 00:31:48.900 · Speaker 1 Plus and minus. Yes. 00:31:48.900 — 00:32:08.060 · Speaker 2 Plus and minus. So we all learned arithmetic, right? And so that part is step one is getting a handle on that. I personally think that with budgeting whatever works for you. Right. Some people have a very, um, casual style of budgeting. I would put myself in there. Yeah. 00:32:08.100 — 00:32:09.420 · Speaker 1 My hands are right. Right, right. 00:32:09.460 — 00:32:19.580 · Speaker 2 Like, great. Like, you know, if you are saving money, if you have more money coming in than going out, it will accumulate somewhere. Right? Right. 00:32:19.940 — 00:32:21.060 · Speaker 1 It gets more plus, right? 00:32:21.060 — 00:32:21.340 · Speaker 2 It gets. 00:32:21.340 — 00:32:21.820 · Speaker 1 Bigger. 00:32:21.860 — 00:32:34.220 · Speaker 2 Right. If you're starting to accrue credit card debt, you're shortfall, right? So these are very easy green flags. Red flags on the budget. If you have a red flag you have to dive in deeper. You need more detail. 00:32:34.260 — 00:32:54.340 · Speaker 1 Well I think for all of us there's some like threshold in your bank account by which you think things are going all right. And once it dips below some certain amount, you're like, oh, right. Right. Like whatever that number is for me, it used to be $500. It's a little bit above that now. But like whatever that number is, is like once we've dipped down, you're like, Houston, we have a problem. Right. So that. Yeah, that's one way. 00:32:54.380 — 00:33:31.170 · Speaker 2 And for all the reasons you already mentioned, I think budgeting is the most fraught with peril, because the decisions that we make about the money that's coming in are so closely tied to our identity. Like, how do you spend your money is so closely tied with your your worth, your perception of worth, creating that psychological safety, all of those all of those things. And so doing a deep dive into the budget is often doing a, you know, a deep dive into your psyche. Right? So that I actually personally like to skip over that part. 00:33:32.410 — 00:33:32.930 · Speaker 1 Right. 00:33:32.930 — 00:34:12.330 · Speaker 2 And I think with, you know, with my clients, I, you know, I get a chance to do that, skip over that part. Right. Because then the next part is that once you have your budget roughly in order, then we're talking about investing. Investing is just turning extra money into more money in some way. How do you grow your wealth over time? You have to save your money, and then you have to find someplace to put that extra pile of money. Right. So step one, high yield savings account, right? Like my my pile of money can now earn 4% per year on average. And that 4% will also earn 4%. So you get the power of compounding and it snowballs over time. 00:34:13.770 — 00:35:13.330 · Speaker 2 Step three is. Well, okay. Well, what if we're not talking about 4%? What if we're talking about 6%? What if we're talking about 10%? What are the different types of investments that we could be or should be looking at to make that compounding go faster, grow wealth faster, like we are on this Earth for a finite number of days, right? We only have so much time to get ready for retirement. So if we all have, we've all heard you need X number of dollars in order to retire in America. Like your X number of dollars is directly related to the amount of money you spend, right? End of story. You can do those calculations. Maybe you need $1 million. Maybe you need $10 million. It comes down to how much you spend each month. But in order to get to that nest egg amount, this is where it is so very difficult for everyone's brains to wrap around rate of growth over time. 00:35:13.370 — 00:38:53.120 · Speaker 1 Yeah I don't because listen right there, all I have tried to figure out basically for years is what is the amount that I need to have in the bank when I retire to be able to live the life I want? Yeah. Getting to that answer is not the simplest. No, because I just want like I want to know what's my goal. Yep. Yeah. And then I can reverse engineer whatever I need to do because people say, well, you know, how much money do you want to make in a year? What do you remember? I'm like, I don't know, it's going pretty fine. But if somebody said to me, okay, Hannah, you need to have $5 million in the bank by the time you're 60 years old. Yep. I'm going to get $5 million in the bank by the time I'm 60 years old. But, like, I think and this kind of goes to a whole different set of questions. But for me, I think the financial industry and the the dudes, for the most part, who occupy this space, I don't know, it's like I feel like they're not that good at explaining things because it's I think that it's a little bit like Wizard of Oz and the great and powerful Oz. And just listen to me and like that. And you go back there and says, dude, I'm right here and there, and I, I feel because. Okay, so this is my story about this whole thing is when I first moved to Austin, um, somehow in the LinkedIn's, I got in all these financial planner bros. LinkedIn algorithm. Yeah. And so they were all wanting to meet me. Yeah. Two. Two reasons that they did not state, but that I deduced is, number one, they wanted to do something with my money. Okay. Plot ruiner I had none. Number two, they wanted my clients at the firm or future clients as I grew or whatever, to use them as financial people. This was their goal. Okay. Well, I didn't really know that at first. And I'm new and I'm trying to, um, make connections and stuff in Austin. So I went on, I want to say five, six of these like, coffee meetups with varying levels of skill, experience, etc.. One, kiddo. It's like I finally I said to him, honey, I'm just going to stop you right there. You're doing some sort of a script on me that somebody at one of these outfits told you to do, but you're not listening to what I'm telling you. You have not done your homework on me to be asking you these questions. And, like, I'm not interested in, like, sitting here for 45 minutes while you practice the script on me, like I'm not doing it. Yeah. Um, and one of the things this is, like, the most basic thing, Sarah. Finally, I'm like, okay, I see what's happening. And I'm like, look, I don't have any money. I just got married. All I have is credit card debt. Any money that we have is my husband's, like, literally separate property that he brought into the marriage. And I don't have any money. So I'm not your huckleberry. I'm not what you want. Yeah. In that, um, but what I try to do is use these conversations to understand. And I was just trying to understand, like, okay, how do you get paid, though? So, like, you're a financial person at one of these places and then people give you money and then you go do booga booga with it. Whatever. How do you get the money and how much percent and like trying to dig into it. And I'm telling you, I did not get what they say. I did not get one satisfactory answer. Oh, and even in, you know, there was a time recently where I was thinking of doing some financial things kind of different or whatever, and asked a bunch of questions, and I'm like, literally, y'all are all lucky that I don't do this for my job, because I would make every video on God's green internet explaining in basic terms what all this stuff is. And y'all, I think are like getting off on being smarter than everybody and knowing these different things. Maybe you're hiding something that's the other potential is you're hiding something that can be because, like my husband Drew's perspective this whole time has been like, is it Warren Buffett or whoever's a really rich guy who's like, just put your money in the. 00:38:53.160 — 00:38:54.200 · Speaker 2 Yeah, the S&P 500. 00:38:54.240 — 00:38:56.760 · Speaker 1 Yeah. And let it be right. Yep. And hard to beat that. 00:38:56.800 — 00:38:57.320 · Speaker 2 Is sure. 00:38:57.320 — 00:39:33.560 · Speaker 1 Is. Yeah. The the idea that I was like at the time I go don't we need a financial planner person like trying to convince her of this. Um, and I never got the data with which to take back to him to try to convince it. So like I think to for women post-divorce, there's also a lot of these financial people who will be like, oh, I'm a CD for I'm a blah, blah, blah. All financial people love to quit letters. They love letters. They love their letters. And like, honestly, us regular folks, we do not care about your letters. Yeah. Um, I don't know what that means, but I think that there's this idea. And people do want to help women, like you're saying. Yeah. Are you a a? No. Okay. 00:39:33.600 — 00:39:38.840 · Speaker 2 I, I have no letters, which is, um, uncommon, but does kind of go to your point. Yeah. Like whatever. 00:39:38.880 — 00:40:39.310 · Speaker 1 And um, so they would like I'm not saying pray because I think they have the best intentions, but like I guess capitalize on like, move on women getting divorced after divorce because, look, there was one financial person maybe, and now they're split. So someone's going to need that account. Um, and so these women post-divorce may find themselves in situations where a lot of people are coming after them, like, oh, let me talk to you about your money, blah, blah, blah. Like, how did they know who to listen to? Who not to listen to. Like, what do they need to be listening for? Um, and like my that's number one question comment. Question number two question would be about like, what are the basic things we need to understand if we don't know anything. Like if we don't know anything about anything about money, and we're two years out from divorce or ten years out from divorce, um, what do we need to know? Like, how do we pick who to listen to and then, okay, forget them and say they can't get to them. Sarah, what can you tell us that we need to know at minimum. 00:40:39.350 — 00:41:19.270 · Speaker 2 Yeah. I have a lot of feelings about this. Okay. Um, so I'll. I'll remember the first question, then probably ask you to remind me about the second one. So in the financial services industry that I mean the opaqueness is by design. Okay. Right. Because it's how it's how we make money and so we want it. The Wizard of Oz metaphor was a good one, right? Like, we want people to think that they need us. We the royal we. Right. So in the financial services industry there, there's nothing like the phrase financial advisor is generic. It's not. It doesn't really mean anything. It doesn't mean. 00:41:19.310 — 00:41:21.190 · Speaker 1 Your Uncle Joe could be a financial advisor. 00:41:21.230 — 00:42:05.270 · Speaker 2 It it implies that you have passed some type of certification, either with securities or investment advice or insurance. Right. But that those are very, very different and big and big things. I think the two most important things to ask someone that you're potentially working with are the ones that you asked. It's how do you get paid? Right. That really there's a handful of ways that advisors can get paid. The most common still to this day is on commission. If I convince you to buy a mutual fund or an insurance annuity or an insurance contract, I get a percent. Maybe it's 6%. Maybe it's 7%. Maybe it's 8%, which is not a small percentage. 00:42:05.270 — 00:42:06.430 · Speaker 1 And I'm paying it. 00:42:06.470 — 00:42:11.510 · Speaker 2 Yes, it is coming out of your contract. It's coming out of your return. 00:42:12.550 — 00:42:56.430 · Speaker 2 So that is the absolutely first thing to ask. The other most common way advisors get paid, and this is how we're mostly set up at Blackburn. Is a percentage of assets under management. So what that means is if I am managing, you know, your IRA and your Roth IRA and your brokerage account and all of these accounts at Schwab that you have every quarter, my fee is a percent of that account value. So a percentage of assets under management. The reason that we chose that form at Blackburn is it puts us on the same side. Right. Like we I want your money. 00:42:56.470 — 00:42:57.790 · Speaker 1 When you win, I win. We win. 00:42:57.830 — 00:44:29.180 · Speaker 2 Correct. And so one of the things we feel about very strongly is people, and specifically women, tend to not take as much risk in their investments because for any number of reasons. So if I want you to have enough money, I'm probably going to recommend that you're in something risky, like the S&P 500 stock market goes up and goes down. My revenue, my fees go up and go down alongside with you. Right. So we are on the we are on the same roller coaster. We are in the same boat. And the reason I would recommend that to you is because I think it's in your best interest. So knowing how someone gets paid is of utmost importance. There are some planners who will do a full financial plan for $10,000 or an hourly rate consultation for $500 an hour or something like that, a retainer fee. So there's all different ways. But for me, the most important thing for your listeners to know is there's a difference between getting paid on commission and getting paid for the advice that you are giving someone. If I think about attorneys, who pays attorneys the clients, right. Yeah. So I am paying you to give me Sarah advice. Right. And I'm relying on you to give me fiduciary advice in my best interest and not putting your interest first. Right. Like, I have to rely on you. You know about the law. I don't. Right. So I'm paying you for your advice. 00:44:29.220 — 00:44:29.620 · Speaker 1 And. 00:44:29.620 — 00:44:57.460 · Speaker 2 Trust. And trust. Right. So that model, I think, is the only way to ensure that you are receiving the least conflicted advice that you possibly can from a financial person. So it's. Am I paying you or is this guy paying you right? Or is this fund company paying you? Who is paying you for giving me this advice? A lot of times people will say, oh, my advisor works for free. It's like girl. 00:44:57.500 — 00:45:00.300 · Speaker 1 Like the company. The insurance company is paid. Why would they do that? 00:45:00.340 — 00:45:13.220 · Speaker 2 Why? Nobody works for free. Nobody works for free. So they're getting paid somewhere. And you should know. And the advisor or consultant, whoever this person is, should be able to tell you very clearly who is who. They are getting paid by. 00:45:13.220 — 00:45:30.460 · Speaker 1 And for the assets under management approach. Basically your returns are paying them. Correct. And how much percent should someone expect that's within a range of reasonable of assets under management. 00:45:30.500 — 00:45:35.780 · Speaker 2 Yeah. That is like how much? Percent. I'm sorry. Say that again. How much percent? Like return on investments? No. 00:45:35.820 — 00:45:40.020 · Speaker 1 Or so. How much should they expect to pay an adviser? The fee. The fee? 00:45:40.060 — 00:46:34.130 · Speaker 2 Great question. I would say a very, very common is something like 1.5% of assets under management. If your total accounts are under, let's say, a million, um, maybe from 1 million to 2 million. The fee steps down to a point, or steps down to 1%, at 2 million, at steps down to 0.7 5%. But every advisor who charges a percent of assets under management will have a fee. Schedule that you can find at the SEC website. You can go to SEC. You can ask them or you can ask them, and it would be in their contract as well. It should be perfectly transparent. Okay. How does this person get paid if it is not perfectly transparent? Like to the point where you can do the calculation yourself by using a brokerage statement and the advisory contract side by side. If it is not that transparent, then there's. 00:46:34.170 — 00:46:34.610 · Speaker 1 Pick a new. 00:46:34.610 — 00:46:38.970 · Speaker 2 Person. Yeah, there's no reason for it to be very complicated and. 00:46:38.970 — 00:46:53.130 · Speaker 1 Is the reason why people are willing to spend 1 to 1.5% of $1 million on this, because the advisor sorts no better than the S&P 500. 00:46:53.210 — 00:46:56.730 · Speaker 2 That is a really, really good question because I would say, like, 00:46:57.850 — 00:47:12.649 · Speaker 2 if drew is a dyer and the two of you together are like, we're just going to chuck it in the stock market and go about our lives and come back. In 30 years. We expect the stock market to double about every 7 to 10 years. And if so, I'm talking about the S&P 500, you know, large US companies 00:47:14.010 — 00:48:06.690 · Speaker 2 and very, very cheap low cost. You don't have to pay anyone anything. But you do have to be able to control your emotions. When the stock market plummets by 20% in one week, like it did in early April, or up 30% in a year like it did in 2020. You have to know enough about the stock market that that's not going to spook you, because the whole point is to buy low. Sell high. Right. And kind of the way that humans are wired is we get greedy. We get fearful. We buy high, sell low. Right. Right. So for a DIY investor who just understands all of these things, there is almost no way that an advisor is going to beat the rate of return, right, because our fees come out on top of it. And so, I mean, what I tell people, if someone comes in with a DIY Vanguard portfolio and they're like, can you beat this? I'm like, no, like, that's not that's not really the value out of an advisor. 00:48:06.730 — 00:48:07.090 · Speaker 1 What's the. 00:48:07.090 — 00:49:06.120 · Speaker 2 Value? The value add is a the planning. I could whip out a calculator right now. And if you tell me a certain tell me your numbers, we could come up with the number that you need. That's your target amount, right? We could do that very easily. And then we could figure out, okay, like Hannah, like, what's your risk tolerance? Do you just want to be in the S&P 500? In which case your rate of return is probably estimated to be 9 to 10%? Or like, are you kind of nervous about this? Are we going to have some problems during the years when the market is down? Do we need to have more stable assets in there? Therefore, we have a lower rate of return, which means you need to save more money to get to your final end goal. So this is what financial planning is. And when it comes down to it, there's really only five inputs in these Calculations. There's the amount you're starting with, which is your present value. The amount you're trying to get to, which is your future value. The amount you're able to put into the accounts, which is your savings rate, the number of years you're going to do it, and what's the rate of return? 00:49:06.160 — 00:49:08.520 · Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, man. I just had MBA flashbacks to that. 00:49:08.640 — 00:49:09.000 · Speaker 2 Right. 00:49:09.040 — 00:49:12.840 · Speaker 1 You took finance classes. Value of money. Ah, so. 00:49:12.840 — 00:49:33.840 · Speaker 2 You know this this would be more intuitive to you than someone who's never heard this before. But when it comes down to it, you're turning the levers to get what you want. If you get a higher rate of return, you don't need to save as much money to get to the same end goal, but you need to have a huge risk tolerance, right? Because the riskier assets go up and down, 00:49:34.920 — 00:50:31.880 · Speaker 2 you know, wildly from day to day, year to year. And some people behaviorally can't tolerate that. So I also need to know, like, all right. Hannah's telling me that she's very risk tolerant. Right. She wants to be in all stocks. I need to make sure that that's correct by always asking you, testing you, seeing how you act under market stress. Because the worst case scenario is that you tell me your risk tolerant stock market is at or near all time highs right at this moment. We come back a year later, the market's down 20% and you're like, get me out of here. Right I hate this I want to sell everything right. We've just destroyed your financial plan and evaporated vast amounts of wealth by buying high selling low. So the financial advisory relationship is there's the technical aspect of the numbers, right? That's something ChatGPT can do, right? They can do the calculation super easy. You could put in, you know, how much do I need. How what size nest egg do I need to retire. 00:50:31.960 — 00:50:32.440 · Speaker 1 That age. 00:50:32.440 — 00:50:33.160 · Speaker 2 65. 00:50:33.200 — 00:50:34.480 · Speaker 1 Asking okay. 00:50:34.680 — 00:50:35.480 · Speaker 2 I know what spreadsheet. 00:50:35.480 — 00:50:36.760 · Speaker 1 I'm doing tonight. Yeah. 00:50:36.800 — 00:51:45.680 · Speaker 2 You put together your whole financial plan. The financial advisor is there to guide you in the asset classes so that the types of things that you're buying that can get you the rate of return you need. So, for example, if your plan says Hanna, you need a 10% annual rate of return, you can't get that in your high yield savings account. You're getting max four, right? Maybe 3.754 is not ten, right. So we have to choose different assets to get you closer to ten. If that's in your plan. So that's kind of the first most basic part of working with an advisor. And then it's the ongoing relationship of, you know what if your goals change? What if your circumstances change? What if there's a windfall? What if there's a divorce? What if there's something like that that changes your whole entire plan? Now we have to rework it. And then the third component is when the market falls, it is very upsetting. You just see, you've done all of this work. I mean, people have saved through their hard work hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. And on paper, poof, it just evaporates. It's just not there anymore. And that is very upsetting. Yeah, as you can imagine. 00:51:45.680 — 00:51:58.310 · Speaker 1 People saw it with their forum. I think like people who don't even invest in all these other things, but like in their 401 of their job. Yeah, like big huge dips. Huge. And now I think it's mostly recovered. If you left it alone. Right. 00:51:58.310 — 00:52:03.190 · Speaker 2 If you left it alone. But were you tempted to sell when to. 00:52:03.190 — 00:52:03.470 · Speaker 1 Market. 00:52:03.670 — 00:52:04.390 · Speaker 2 Declined? 00:52:04.430 — 00:52:08.110 · Speaker 1 No, because I don't know enough about it to even know. You're just like, let it be. 00:52:08.150 — 00:52:27.750 · Speaker 2 I mean, honestly, you're the perfect. You'd be the perfect client, right? The perfect clients are the ones who either are able to. They see what's happening and they're able to get through it because of experience or this knowledge base that they have, they've acquired in some way, or that just simply ignore it and walk away and just say, okay. 00:52:27.910 — 00:53:02.190 · Speaker 1 Well, it's like to me, this is so silly, but like, it's either it's either going to be true that the market will level out and you just have to wait it out, or it's going to be like Jimmy Stewart and It's a Wonderful Life, and there's a run on the bank and I'm going to be like, but you know, what's his name? Oh my gosh. But I need. How much do you need? And I need $20 to make it. Oh come on, come on. I'm, you know. So in my own mind, it's like one of those two things is going to happen. Either it's going to work because that's what all of them say. Yeah. Or there's going to be a run on the bank and everyone's screwed, right? So like, that's how I think about it. 00:53:02.190 — 00:53:46.590 · Speaker 2 That is a very constructive way to think about it, right? Our entire economy and financial system is based on things working in the future like they have in the past. There's no guarantee. But there are a lot of people with a lot of wealth invested in this economy, in this financial system that need things to buy large continue the way they are. Right. So you have to have a little bit of faith and a little bit of, you know, underlying knowledge that that is the case, that if you are an if you are a part of the investor class, you are sitting alongside Warren Buffett, right? Um, or you're sitting alongside Elon Musk, whoever. Right. Like all of these people, whoever, whoever your person is or isn't right. These people. 00:53:48.150 — 00:53:59.350 · Speaker 2 Are they going to put their billions at stake, like by kind of, um, abandoning the financial system? Or are we all kind of in it together in, in some way? Right. 00:53:59.390 — 00:54:58.780 · Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. I mean, and I think, okay, so what I'm hearing is, you know, if you're going to work with someone, if you've got enough money where you need to talk to somebody about it, um, well, what's that question? When do I have enough money that I need to talk to somebody about it? Like all those things you're saying where you would say, like, okay, once, like if you're if you're trying to invest $10,000, you don't, you know, most I just know this financial advisor is not going to take you for the most part. They have to it has to be a certain amount of money for it to be worth it. Some have pretty high thresholds, like $2 million. Some are when they're getting started, it's less 100,000. But like you all be ready if you start talking to these folks, they will make you feel like shit. Yep. Because I'm like, oh, sorry, I can't help you. You don't have $2 million of liquid to invest. I'm like, are you insane? If I had $2 million liquid to invest, I would not need your help. It's so ridiculous to me. Um. But there also, it has to be worth their time. So, like, at what point should women. What amount of money do they need when they need to start asking for these advisor sorts so they can then ask them, how are those people going to make money? 00:54:58.820 — 00:55:40.220 · Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I think that there are really, really amazing resources. I mean, so like just throw it as a plug. The Austin Women's Investing Group in Austin, there are free resources of women sharing information with other women. There are plenty of books. There are plenty of podcasts. Uh, you've been on podcasts that I do. Uh, where you are learning the basics with a small amount, a relatively small amount of money. And so if we're talking about $10,000, the best thing that you can do is add to it through savings. Right? You have $10,000. In order to make it grow by 10%, you need to find another $1,000 and add to it. Right? That's a really good rate of return, right? 00:55:40.260 — 00:55:41.340 · Speaker 1 You've just grown money. 00:55:41.340 — 00:57:35.460 · Speaker 2 Get more money, right. And you can go like kind of phase one is grow that nest egg by hook or by crook. Um, learn as much as you can about how to invest in your 401 K. Get the free money you can. A lot of these are like personal finance decisions, right? You can get really far on your own. Typically, it's time to loop in a professional if you are unable to move forward with these decisions. If you have accumulated $100,000, let's say. Right. Just brute force of saving it in a high yield savings account or something like that. And you cannot get to a comfort level where you're taking the next step of opening a 401 K, funding a Roth IRA, investing in a stock fund, kind of whatever the next level, real High growth opportunities are. You need to find someone to help you so that you can continue moving forward on your journey. And sometimes you just need someone who's there to just like, hit the buy button, right? Like, I have no qualms about buying the S&P 500 index fund. I do it every day, right? Like I love it. So I'll go in and hit the buy button. But a lot of people get hung up just in. Taking that action feels very high stakes, right? Like, well, what if it's the wrong time? What if it falls? What if it goes down tomorrow? I buy it today and then it falls tomorrow. Like, I would be like, well, that's just the way the market works, right? But you would feel not you personally, but someone might feel like a failure. I did it wrong. I'm doing it wrong. It's going down. I'm doing it wrong. Right? So you need to start layering in a professional to help you with that if you still have a relatively small asset base. So I'm probably I mean probably thinking 500,000 or below, 00:57:36.580 — 00:57:45.020 · Speaker 2 you're going to want to be looking for a certified financial planner who I say certified financial planner because they always have to operate under the fiduciary standard. 00:57:45.020 — 00:57:46.940 · Speaker 1 Which means I put your needs ahead of mine. 00:57:46.980 — 00:58:09.020 · Speaker 2 Correct. Right. They're always a fiduciary standard. And so I would find a CFP who would maybe do some hourly work for you. Okay. If your assets are much lower than that, I would maybe look at a pro bono financial planning service or a local nonprofit organization that has some type of financial literacy financial planning component to it. 00:58:09.060 — 00:58:26.940 · Speaker 1 You know, sir, it's so interesting in your world, in this world, like under $500,000, you know, 100. Like, because to me, having $100,000 in cash in the bank means you are rich, right? It's like doing that, but it's like, okay, I have $100,000 and I need to find somebody to do it. Pro bono. 00:58:27.300 — 00:58:31.700 · Speaker 2 Isn't. Yeah, it's I mean, that is the way the industry is set up. 00:58:32.100 — 00:58:47.690 · Speaker 1 Seems like there's got to be an answer to that for some whippersnapper to come in who isn't? I mean, it just seems like if I was. I don't know what I don't know, but it seems like. Okay. Yeah, obviously more money you make bigger, but like, couldn't somebody do some volume and like, so if. 00:58:47.690 — 00:59:31.250 · Speaker 2 You're so on on that's a really good point. And there are services out there that will augment these other services that I mentioned. Right. So for example, if you participate in a 401 K plan at work, there's a plan administrator for that plan. And they have financial consultants or financial advisors that are available to answer your questions. I would call them first. They will offer you advice on the plan that you are participating in, but they'll often provide advice on what what they would call your held away assets. Right. Like the assets that aren't part of the plan. So that might be oh, that might be free. Cool, right? It's baked into the the cost of the employer spends to have the plan in place. 00:59:31.250 — 00:59:32.010 · Speaker 1 I did not know. 00:59:32.010 — 01:00:25.090 · Speaker 2 That there's if you have an account at Vanguard, Schwab, fidelity, any of the big guys. They have financial consultants on staff that will answer your questions. They aren't typically allowed to provide advice. Right. So everything will come with a caveat. Right. Well, this isn't financial advice, but what you might want to look at is this S&P 500 index fund or this, um, technology fund or this bond fund. Right. They'll give you some guidance but won't be able to call it advice. Um, so that is another route where you can just pick people's brains at Schwab, Vanguard, fidelity if you have an account there. So those are really good low cost options to you might not be getting like the full standard of receiving personalized investing advice, but it's best. 01:00:25.130 — 01:00:26.770 · Speaker 1 You don't got the money to to worn. 01:00:26.770 — 01:00:48.050 · Speaker 2 It right. But really you're just looking for guidance at that point to right. Much of the wealth accumulation will come from saving the money, investing it now and giving that time to grow. But if I said before that, we expect the S&P 500 to double every 7 to 10 years. If you're starting with $10,000 and that doubles to 20 in 10 years, 01:00:49.530 — 01:01:04.130 · Speaker 2 money is going to have to come from somewhere else to augment it over time. So you're trying to do both. You're trying to save and you're trying to get all of those savings growing as fast as possible over a long period of time. It's like it's it can be quite boring, right? Like, well. 01:01:04.130 — 01:01:04.250 · Speaker 1 It. 01:01:04.250 — 01:01:05.810 · Speaker 2 Makes getting rich slowly. 01:01:05.850 — 01:01:20.210 · Speaker 1 Honestly, it makes me feel like. I feel like I'm kind of tapped into the energy of people who are listening to this of like, anxious, like, wait, what do you mean? That I have to have $500,000 to have enough money to go to a financial person? 01:01:20.210 — 01:01:24.370 · Speaker 2 Yeah, but you don't need $500,000 to start 01:01:25.450 — 01:01:36.160 · Speaker 2 listening to the infinite number of podcasts, the infinite number of financial planning Publications in every major news. There we go and go. 01:01:36.160 — 01:01:37.840 · Speaker 1 Into Austin Women's Investing Group. 01:01:37.880 — 01:01:44.800 · Speaker 2 Go to the Austin Women's Investing Group. Like this information is out there and there's nothing stopping you from tapping into it. 01:01:44.800 — 01:02:24.840 · Speaker 1 Well, let me say let's do that, because what would you tell women? Let's just say 500 K an up. Y'all are finding somebody or a call in Sarah's office, Black Barn Financial in Austin, okay. Or someone like her. Um, and but for those in that other from the $10 to the, you know, 100 to 3, $500,000 group, what would you tell them? And this is sort of one of our questions we ask everybody, what advice would you give those women of divorce land. What would you tell them they need to do? Like in terms of and I'm not saying financial advice, but just like in general, some general concepts of things that they need to keep in mind so they can start somewhere. 01:02:24.880 — 01:02:46.520 · Speaker 2 Yeah. Do not give up control of your money. And so if you are starting from absolute zero on a kind of a financial education perspective. I mean, I do think the onus is on you to take responsibility for that. This is your money. There's almost nothing that's more important. Maybe your kids, you know, like, you know. 01:02:46.560 — 01:02:46.880 · Speaker 1 Whatever. 01:02:46.880 — 01:03:33.520 · Speaker 2 That is. Right? But there's we're talking about your safety and security for independence and your your freedom. This is could not be more important. When something is important, you dedicate time and effort to it. And this is not easy. It is not intuitive, but it is of the utmost importance. So you ask all of your friends, what do they do, right? Um, do they have books? Do they have podcasts? Do they have experts that they listen to that you can start listening to and you carve out the time to start learning the language, just like you would get on Duolingo to learn Italian. You have to be exposed to the language and it will sink in and you will start making decisions and you will start moving this forward on your own. 01:03:33.520 — 01:03:46.680 · Speaker 1 And there's a lot of like like women like for in this world, I know like wealthy women lawyer. Like I'm thinking of some of those where they break down, like how real estate and all this for women. So you would tell them, get informed. 01:03:46.760 — 01:03:47.640 · Speaker 2 Get informed. 01:03:47.640 — 01:04:25.960 · Speaker 1 And then like, are there any sort of like, you know, what I'm thinking of is, okay, if there's a 401 K at work, more than likely maxing that out, especially if there's a match is a good idea for you. Yes. Right. Like that's a first place to start to start accumulate some wealth. It's set it and forget it like it's going to come out of your paycheck. Don't ever consider that. I'm just saying this. This is not serious financial advice. This is Hanna's thoughts. It's not financial advice or legal advice either. Okay. But, you know, your employer may have a match. And then if you just never think of that as your money, it never comes into your bank account. You're depositing it, and then it just grows. And you check back in a year later and you're like, oh, whoa. 01:04:26.120 — 01:05:20.390 · Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, so imagine like you are. You have friends. You are friends of people. Imagine someone coming to you and saying, like Hannah. Like I don't know what to do. Like, what is my next step here? You just very clearly talked about several next steps. So I do think looping everybody in to this journey that you are on let everybody know that you're scared or that you don't know what to do or that you're looking for help because the the universe will organize around that and these resources will come to the forefront. You are absolutely not alone in this. Every other woman in this world has been in the same boat and has thought the same things, and is at some in some version of that journey, right? You don't need to go to a financial advisor, especially if the thought process is I need a financial advisor to just handle this for me so I don't have to think. 01:05:20.390 — 01:05:21.630 · Speaker 1 Because you're gonna do the same thing again. 01:05:21.670 — 01:06:03.950 · Speaker 2 And you need to think about it, right? Your best financial advisor relationship will be as a partnership again, not as an abdication of responsibility. Right. Like you don't like, just turn it all over and then never get a check in. So it's really like if whatever is stopping, if it's a money story, if it's just, it's if it's depression, if it's just pure like you, like you have just gone through a trauma, right? Letting your community know what you are going through. I promise you that your community will organize around you and get you the information you need to start a Roth IRA, open a high yield savings account. Contribute to your 401. 01:06:05.270 — 01:06:13.070 · Speaker 2 Should I pay down my mortgage? Everybody around you is going to have opinions on that. So you're like crowdsourcing it, right? But from your most trusted. Yeah. And beloved people. 01:06:13.110 — 01:06:14.110 · Speaker 1 Ask the rich people. 01:06:14.150 — 01:06:15.270 · Speaker 2 Ask the rich people. 01:06:15.310 — 01:06:52.790 · Speaker 1 If you know any like and if you're listening to this and you're like, do hair, do any of your clients seem like they got a lot of money? Like ask them advice, you know, and women in general like to help other women. At least they're close to women. And so I think that that's really great advice, Sarah. Um, okay. So another question for you. The podcast is called Not Saving It for later. Yeah. And it's really just it's, if nothing else, a reminder to my own self that we're not saving it for later. Um, not putting joy on layaway. Um, for you, what comes up? Is there anything in your life you find yourself saving for later, or anything that you have to say on that? 01:06:52.830 — 01:07:01.070 · Speaker 2 I mean, I, I don't know if if you had a similar experience, but I think during, during Covid that experience, 01:07:02.350 — 01:07:40.820 · Speaker 2 I, it taught me to buy the bagels and lox, not for some special Sunday breakfast, but whenever I wanted it. Right. Have the champagne whenever you want to drink. And you want champagne and burn the fancy candles. And don't save it for later. Right. And so I think that that I love that sentiment because I think it has really changed. Um, it's changed my mindset since since doing that during Covid, from a scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset. If I burn the fancy candle, another fancy candle is going to come into my life, right? 01:07:41.180 — 01:07:43.180 · Speaker 1 Maybe a new scent you didn't even know you liked? 01:07:43.220 — 01:08:44.700 · Speaker 2 Correct. Right. And so there is, I mean, whatever, like the the fabulous dress that you bought and you find a reason to wear it or just wear it for no reason at all. Uh, I think that that is something that has really been a life changing sentiment for me. And it and it really happened during Covid. Like, I, you know, I just went on this fabulous trip with my girlfriends from college and it was a little bit spur of the moment, and six of us could make it right on kind of a last minute trip. And it was like, oh my gosh, these are some of my best friends, right? Like, why Say why. Put that off for a more convenient time. Because it was not convenient to go this past afternoon or this past weekend. Right. It was not convenient, but I could not be more grateful, um, that I made the decision to go and see those girls who I love dearly and hardly ever get to see, because we live in all, you know, all corners of the earth. And it was really, really special. Yeah, that's how it shows up for me. 01:08:44.740 — 01:08:53.180 · Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it's it. I think all of us can relate to that thing about, like, not burning the fancy candles. I've got candles and cabinets that I've had for years. Like, what are they doing? Right? 01:08:53.259 — 01:08:53.540 · Speaker 2 What are they. 01:08:53.580 — 01:09:19.819 · Speaker 1 Doing? Um, okay. And another thing I always am so curious about, this one is, um, I am convinced that we all live with, like, one dominant thought at a time. Like one thing. It may be an anxiety. It may be a fear. It may be something you're just curious. You're, you know, whatever that is that kind of circulates for a day, a week, a month. Is there anything like that going on for you? Something that's just kind of been a dominant thought on your mind? 01:09:19.859 — 01:10:32.730 · Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I think right now is that there's just not enough time. Mhm. Right. And that is um I struggle with that. I know I'm not the only one. I know most of the people listening to this are going to have, you know, a similar sentiment. There's just there's just not enough time. Um, sometimes it's, it feels like it's, um, like a living in a cage that I created for myself. Right? I have a business. I have a family. I have all of these things. Right? I'm taking all of these trips. Right. So kind of you do it to yourself. Um, but then I also remember, like, oh, I have all of these things. I have this business, right, that is thriving and and requiring more and more effort. I have these kids who are growing up and who I want to spend time with and go and do the things with. And I have these trips right where I get to go and and see these friends. And so it is it's very difficult in real time to keep to keep that a positive. Right, instead of like, oh my gosh, like there's never going to be one moment ever in my life between now and the time I die, where I'm going to have, I'm going to have enough time. Right? But, um, that has been, I think, what I've struggled with for, you know, at least the last, the last couple of weeks, I would say. 01:10:32.770 — 01:10:45.170 · Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think that comes up. So when I was with it's just such a busy season, right. Crowded in the fall, moms, kids, all that. You know Sarah, what if what if you just started a different phrase? What if you. Well, can I share this with you? 01:10:45.210 — 01:10:46.090 · Speaker 2 Yes, please. 01:10:46.170 — 01:10:50.370 · Speaker 1 What if you just said I have all the time I'll ever need? Oh. 01:10:50.690 — 01:10:51.770 · Speaker 2 You're gonna make me cry. 01:10:51.810 — 01:10:57.130 · Speaker 1 I have, let's say, let's just one second. Ever. Take it in. Breathe deep breath in everybody. 01:11:02.850 — 01:11:07.490 · Speaker 1 I have all the time I will ever need. 01:11:08.130 — 01:11:11.490 · Speaker 3 I have all the time I would ever need. Hmm. 01:11:13.290 — 01:11:52.610 · Speaker 1 What if you just started saying that every morning, every night, any time you feel stressed. Like for me, I felt this way for a long time. Sarah. And then what I started saying is. And I kind of did it sassy. I'd be like, I have the luxury of taking my time. Oh, yeah. And to me, that looks like because I literally run between places, like in my house, like when I'm in the kitchen, go down to the bedroom back here. Boop boop boop. Back and forth. And so for me, it's about I have the luxury of taking my time. I'm just going to walk one little step at a time down this hallway. 01:11:52.610 — 01:11:53.850 · Speaker 3 Just slowly. Slowly. 01:11:53.890 — 01:12:17.010 · Speaker 1 Mhm. And like it was a meeting that was somewhat optional for me to go to I think in my should and performing energy and like wanting to be all things and always be the good girl and do all the right. Did it I, I would have gone to the meeting but what I said and we have a luxury sometimes I would get to do this as business owners is what we should do. And to me it is a revolutionary act to say, but no, I don't want to. 01:12:18.130 — 01:13:13.130 · Speaker 1 I have the luxury of taking my time. And not everybody can be that all the time. But I think you can do that in a mindset way instead of looking. You're going to self-fulfilling prophecy, right? Like I don't ever there's never going to be enough time. You're going to continue your brain. You just claimed it for yourself. So you're going to continue to fill it up. So you make the thing true. But what if instead literally talk to Casey Shipp on an episode about this? Like, what if you? What would it look like for a woman who had all the time in the world? How would she act? How would she show up? How would she behave? What would she do today and then act in accordance therewith? And like this way and then like, okay, what would she do? And I don't think it means, like neither one of us want to be a woman who has all the time in the world. She's not being lazy. No, she's not sitting around. She's just enjoying a cup of coffee for a minute. She's not worried that if she takes 15 extra minutes on this meeting, the rest of her day is screwed, right? 01:13:13.170 — 01:13:28.130 · Speaker 2 I mean, the way that I hear it is, you have all the time in the world you are. You're in control of allocating your time and resources according to what you need in that moment that you're taking back the people, 01:13:29.250 — 01:13:38.810 · Speaker 2 people, or events pressing onto you and you receiving that energy, and instead you are intentionally allocating that scarce resource. 01:13:38.970 — 01:13:40.090 · Speaker 1 Well, it's like money to. 01:13:40.130 — 01:13:40.770 · Speaker 2 Exactly. 01:13:40.810 — 01:13:46.490 · Speaker 1 You've already. You've literally already changed your money story, Sarah. What if you changed your time story? 01:13:46.530 — 01:13:48.330 · Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, that is. 01:13:49.130 — 01:13:50.130 · Speaker 3 Something I. 01:13:50.370 — 01:13:52.090 · Speaker 2 Will absolutely work on. 01:13:52.330 — 01:13:52.610 · Speaker 3 Yeah. 01:13:52.650 — 01:14:43.280 · Speaker 1 I mean, it's available to all of us. I think it's like I heard somebody ask about it being wealthy. And automatically your brain goes to money. It was Louise. Hey, some old Instagram clip of her. And then she was like, but are you wealthy in time? Are you wealthy in relationship? And like, wealthy and time. And I definitely struggle with this when I pack it in da da da da da. And sometimes seasons are just like that. I've definitely been in that season. Um, for me, and it's in these little recaptures. So that's one thing. Where can you recapture, where can you claim something differently and just flip that script? You've already done it with money. It's in wealth. And you're you're in teaching other people how to do that. It sounds like perhaps there's just like another frontier of wealth as it concerns your time. And it's an attitude and it's a mindset. It's believing it's possible. And then it's like believing you can be wealthy right before you are. Absolutely. And then act in accordance, set up a plan, set up some strategies, and then act in accordance therewith. 01:14:43.720 — 01:14:55.440 · Speaker 2 I love that it's all it's two sides of the same coin. Right? When we're talking about these things, things that we feel like are scarce or that aren't for us, but then you claim them. They are for you. 01:14:55.600 — 01:15:33.960 · Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I just, I yeah, have the luxury of taking my time. Yeah. I mean or what if I'm not then. Yeah. It's every other outer demand and they're not all doing that for me. Right, right. Everybody else is bending over, you know, all the time for me. Right? Right. It can't be. Because if we're all doing it for each other all the time, whoever gets to benefit from it, or we're all just doing things for each other no one even ever asked us to do. Or maybe they did ask. And they don't have the right to ask or whatever. Tell them no. Um, okay. Last thing, Sarah. So any parting advice? If you could only tell the women of divorced land, either, you know, thinking about going through or after divorce one thing, what would you tell them? 01:15:34.720 — 01:15:36.480 · Speaker 2 The one thing is 01:15:37.720 — 01:15:45.760 · Speaker 2 you have agency and control over your relationship with money. 01:15:47.160 — 01:16:10.919 · Speaker 2 You can grab it. You can move along the path as slowly or as quickly as you need to. Does not all have to be done at one time? This is a journey for every person and wherever you are in the journey, you can take one big step, one baby step right now. But just keep going right? You are Are 01:16:12.000 — 01:16:15.639 · Speaker 2 worthy of claiming 01:16:16.960 — 01:17:05.200 · Speaker 2 wealth and of the security and the independence and the freedom that goes along with making those choices for yourself. And you are smart enough. Absolutely. And it is something that can be learned. And please wrap in all of the people around you your children, your parents, your siblings, your friends, and bring them along on the journey with you because they can either support you or they're going to learn from you, right? Like if if this is something you've never done before and no one was able to teach you. Think about the people that you can teach by sharing your journey with them, because it is absolutely one of the most powerful things you can do. 01:17:05.400 — 01:17:48.910 · Speaker 1 Well, because here's the thing for anybody who's listening still like money in and of its own self. Neither. Sarah I know, Sarah. Neither one of us. I'd say it's not a value in and of its own self. Money gives you options. And for those of you who've gone through a divorce, you probably know money limited your options. For most of you, money limited your options and how long it took you to even leave him, right? And it limited your options. If the choices you made even about your custody and everything else during the divorce. So this is I'm so glad, Sarah, that you took the time to visit with us, because I want everybody listening to have all of the options so that she may go out and live her one wild and precious life with wild abandon, because 01:17:49.950 — 01:17:52.390 · Speaker 1 we have all the time we will ever need. 01:17:52.710 — 01:18:02.590 · Speaker 2 Oh my gosh, thank you for doing this, Hannah. It is such a valuable resource for the community, and I just thank you for having me on the show and asking me to be a part of it. 01:18:02.630 — 01:18:03.790 · Speaker 4 Oh. Thanks, Sarah.