DREW.txt

English (US)

01:00:00.000 — 01:02:20.479

It's way easier when you're facing something that is life altering and potentially scary. That has a lot of consequences to do it with a smaller step, and that's essentially what it is. I'm not taking on all the responsibility. All of a sudden, it's not instant parenthood exactly right. It's not like we got married and you in that moment, I will pay every dollar for these children's college.

And now I will make sure and buy their first car. That was not the thought. It changed. But at the time, that was not the thought. Let's be honest. Most of us were taught to wait our turn to tone it down to save it for later. Later, when the kids are grown. Later when the timing is right. Later when you finally stop caring what they think.

Well, I'm done waiting. I'm Hannah Hembree Bell, Texas divorce lawyer, mom and woman who rebuilt her life from the wreckage. This is not saving it for later. The podcast Guiding Women through Divorce and beyond. All right. Everybody will welcome back to Not Saving It for later with my favorite guest.

And I hear everybody else's favorite guest. Yeah, yeah. Duh. The one and only dribble. I am so excited to be able to do this again together. I've been talking a lot about you. Not to you all season. Drew, I'm a main character with your second husband. Energy vibes. Um, so I'm excited for you to come back. And so, like everyone else, I have to find out exactly what you've been saying about me.

Yeah. By listening. Yeah, yeah, you'll find hard any of this. You'll find out as it comes out. You know, it's. I rediscover it myself because I have no idea what I've said. The moment that it's over and I'm just. I'm along for the ride with everybody else. I'm like, oh, yeah, what did we do? I remember some of the bits that other people said, but I don't know.

Um, okay. Drew. Well, what I was thinking about is where we last left off in the story. We have a big old story. We're not going to do the whole thing here. Um, as whoever it is in SF w I guess. Yeah. Uh, but we left off, I think, talking about getting engaged and all moving in together. Right. So for some of you who maybe this is your first meeting of Drew Bell, catch you up a little bit.

So, um, Drew Bell and I have been married for

01:02:21.560 — 01:04:15.359

a while now. Yeah, a while, seven and a half years. Seven a half years together for longer than that. Like ten and a half. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Okay. Drew is the date person in our relationship. Clearly. Um, and when we got together, drew had never been married. Um, did not have any of his own kids. I was newly divorced with three children, um, five, six and eight years old, I think that's right.

Yeah. I mean. Sara was. Sara was four when we first met. Right. But he was turning five. Yeah. Yeah. Um. So, littles. So we had pretty littles, and we merged our lives. Drew relocated from Washington, D.C., where he was a lawyer in a big fancy law firm. He's still a lawyer in a big, fancy law firm. Uh, but he was then working in D.C..

Like, literally across the street from the white House. Yep. And relocated. Then we were in San Antonio, and we. He was living in Austin for a while at first when we were dating. And then when we were getting engaged, we decided to all move in together. I did not want to move in together until we were engaged, because I felt like otherwise it would be like a divorce on the kids all over again.

Um, so we moved in together. Uh, when we get engaged. Sort of happened almost on the same day. Yeah. A day or two apart. Almost. Um, and then the whole story there. Um, and then we merged two lives. Um, really? I guess five lives. Five? Yeah. Yeah. Um. Together. And so I thought we could talk today. Drew a little bit about, I don't know, some of our wins and some of our losses in terms of how we did that.

Um, I think one of the things, some context that makes ours a little bit different is

01:04:16.560 — 01:06:24.329

the way we first integrated our home was pretty abnormal. And the way that that happened was because we get engaged in the summer and almost immediately thereafter, um, the kids, I mean, like the next day or whatever, we're back, coming back and all moving in together in the house. So like, okay, that was a big change.

And then drew got a work assignment that's called a secondment. And like secondment, which I didn't know what that was until I knew what it was. And basically his law firm loaned him to another company for a period of time, where he still worked for his law firm, but he was like a substitute teacher almost.

Yeah, or like a copier that they wanted to borrow a copier to borrow? Yeah. Over at their other company, which had Dru, believe it or not, go back into DC, um, and work. So he got down and he was in Austin for a year or two. Then we're all living together, and then boom, we move in together. And what do you know?

Drew gets this amazing opportunity that he can't say no to and shouldn't say no to, and didn't say no to, to go back into DC and the way we sort of worked that was drew was gone during the week like Monday through Thursday. No Sunday through Thursday. Yeah. It was it was like Monday through Friday. I was in Virginia.

Yeah. Yeah. But he would come home. Um, most of the weekends I think just about all of them, just about all of them I'm thinking of. We went there at least once, and there's probably like a weekend where something was happening. Right? Um. But drew was there on the weekend. So like I explained all that to explain the way we very first started.

This was not as in the deep end as a lot of people, because everybody got to get used to each other in phases. So there was a bit of that all in one time in the summer, which we'd had some more intense time in summers in years prior. But it's different when everybody is living in the same place and all their stuff is in the same place.

So all of Drew's stuff was there. He didn't have another separate house or anything like that. And then, um, he

01:06:25.330 — 01:07:18.269

would be gone during the week, which the kids were at a new school in San Antonio, and they had all of that adjustment, and I had the adjustments of making school lunches and all that stuff again, because, remember, we'd just been through this custody trial. The kids had not been with me for three years. I guess that's about how long it was.

And then I'm not ever the best on the dates. Okay, so yeah, I think three years is right, though. That's right. Okay. Yeah. Um, just y'all bear with me. But this is not exact. There, like penumbra of the dates. Um, but about three years. So I was getting used to kids in the house every day, making the lunches, juggling work, and kids where I was a lawyer at a big law firm myself at that time do an employment law work, thought I was always doing kid business, and kids always thought I was doing work business.

I was sort of losing, um, at all angles, uh, burning the candle at both ends. So that's sort of setting the stage, I think. And drew, how would you say

01:07:19.430 — 01:07:44.590

that ended up playing out? Like, what I'm thinking about is for some people they may be like, that's a bad idea. And some people may be like, oh, interesting. That's a good idea. What do you think that did? Uh, the way we sort of eased into the all in oneness? Well, I think for us it worked out great. I think it was.

Yeah. I mean, it took what was kind of a jarring,

01:07:45.630 — 01:08:01.330

you know, situation for me, um, like a living. And we talked a little bit about this, um, last time. Um, but did we like, about the socks and all that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, uh, but we didn't talk about me going to Virginia. I don't think. Um. And.

01:08:02.370 — 01:11:09.030

Yeah. So y'all fast forward 30s. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it it it allowed for a sort of slower transition period now. I mean, it's not something that everyone can really engineer. This just kind of happened to us. Well, what they might could do is, is engineer a slower integration phase where maybe you don't all the way move everybody in together all at once.

But what if you did it where it's sort of like weekdays or weekends or some version of a little bit like maybe. Are you a jump in the cold swimming pool in the deep end, like a cannonball person? Are you a toes, ankles? Shins? Knees? Hips? Person I'm a toes. Ankles, shins. I'm not about to jump into the deep cold water.

Yeah. You know I'm a I'm a. Ease it in. So maybe they could do that. Yeah. I mean, maybe I've never heard of that. Exactly. But I think I think it's maybe not a bad idea to depending on your circumstances. And if you know, you can afford to have two places or whatever. Um, and, um, because it is a big change. And I think one of the things that we did that was smart, which was, you know, not fully moving in until we were engaged or basically engaged, um, and uh, um, I think that was that was a smart way to protect the kids right now.

I do think that me going off to the succumbing or whatever was not necessarily the easiest on you, although, you know, because like you just said, you were also you were also making this adjustment that you had, uh, not had for a little while. Yeah. Um, and, you know, on a, on sort of a week day basis, you didn't really have, Um, you didn't really have the support that you otherwise would have had.

Um, I also didn't have the obligations. And I don't mean obligations of the capital. Oh, like in a negative way. But I didn't have this other set of responsibilities and desires and wants and distractions and everything else. Like during the week, it was a lot just to get everybody and all their homework and all their things and adjustments and new doctors and all that that was happening.

In addition to the kids difficulties that they were facing at that particular time with the change. And had you been there all the time, I might have had the support. But now, knowing us now and then, going back in time, that guy wasn't really in the spot to be able to support in the way back then because you didn't have any context for it all the way just yet.

You know what I mean? I think if you would have been there all the time, I would have felt more of a pull of like making sure to the care and feeding of drew. Right. Like dealing? Not necessarily. Not like I'd be feeding you. Let's be honest. Of course. But but, um, you know, even just been in that time at night or making sure that, you know, kids are down and you have this other time, because what I would be doing is I would get the kids down and I'd start to work again, but if I would have had somebody else there, my focus would have been more split.

So I think that's one of the inherent benefits. That was also it's, you know, both both. And do you think that

01:11:10.270 — 01:15:19.430

having me around only part of the time, like, was helpful in sort of, um, reshaping the relationship with the kids? I think I think that may have been the case. Yeah, I think for sure that ease in allowed them to ease into you in a different way. Yeah. Versus like, oh, ready made dad. Now we have a whole new family, and somebody else is gonna be bossing me around in their face all of the time.

And same thing for them. They didn't have to split their focus on adjusting to school and adjusting to new dad sort of fella at the house. They got to focus on one thing and then on the weekends. You know, drew was there and sometimes that could be fun and supportive and whatever, and started to put some contours to the idea of this as a family.

Because just because you all live in the same place and say that you're getting married does not make a family. No, no. You know, I wonder about that. What do you think? I don't know. I don't know how to think about this. I'm just trying to think like for. And this may be something we talk about in a minute, but like, when we cross that threshold from a crew of people living in the same place to.

This is our family now. I mean, I think there's a lot more that we could talk about, about that. I think for me, definitely, definitely after the wedding for sure. And probably. So you're saying that that happened after the the wedding? Yeah. We all just were a bunch of people living together. Who? Mom was getting married to this guy, period.

And handsome though he may be. Yeah. Handsome, charming, wonderful, good cook, all kinds of very good things. Um. Good dude. And they all the kids have never wondered if Drew's a good dude. I mean, that's not no part of that. No question. Nobody who's ever known Drew Bell wonders if he's a good dude. Um, but I think that at first we're sort of like a bunch of random playing cards you find in your drawer.

They don't make a full deck, you know, you got a Uno card, you got a Queen of hearts, you got something from it. Yahtzee game. You know what I mean? It's like all these different things together. So I don't think that at that point, even if we would have said family, I don't even think we. I bet we didn't. I bet we didn't use the word family right away.

I don't think we would have put that label on it yet. And I guess I'm just calling this out in case you're moving in with somebody else and it's not quite feeling, Um, gelled yet and it doesn't feel like it's own item. Like my my algebra teacher, Coach Mitchell, when I was in junior high, I used to call, um, a variable and, um, like it's own little unit.

So I think of us as an, um, we weren't our own, um, yet, but we were working on it. And I think that that really took because we lived in San Antonio together for a year. That must have been about a year when the lease would have been up. Yeah. And then all moved to Austin and we didn't get married. We got married around when we were moving, which was not the best plan.

We. Yeah, we moved in like late summer and were married in October. In the fall. Yeah. Um, and it was after that, y'all. So it was at least a year or so when we were all living together in the same house. Engaged. So fully committed. Both of us getting engaged was as good as married. I mean, there was no going to break it up situation at that point.

Um, so, you know, I don't know, going forward when it would have really shifted. I mean, I know for sure when Penny, our youngest, came along. That for sure, they like somebody. I heard calls that kind of child a bridge baby. Sort of the bridge to build the family across two units. Definitely. Penny did that for us.

I think it happened before then, though. I think he had shifted. Um, I think, you know, I'm remembering a certain set of circumstances, like around when Lucy would have been about 13 or so, um, sort of weathering some big challenges, you know. Yeah. I mean, I think there was a certain amount of, like, we

01:15:21.030 — 01:15:39.410

we were all sort of acting the part a little bit before it really was natural. Um, which is probably what you're thinking of, like before the wedding. Um. you know, but I think it was pretty soon after that. Really. Um, you know,

01:15:40.610 — 01:19:58.980

there is something about actually getting married and having the ceremony and all of that that I think represents a, you know, a nice sort of marker in time for everybody who's involved. And they were all in the wedding. Right. And they. Yeah, it was just a picture. And the boys that walked me down the aisle holding my hand.

So sweet. Yeah. And Lucy was a flower girl. Yeah. Yeah. So it just y'all. It takes some time. So we moved in. Let's, you know, back and back up. Like we moved in together and just. I mean, we weren't. And I think that's the overarching thing I would tell people, drew that we've done differently than I've seen other couples do, both personally and professionally.

We didn't force anything. We didn't. This is a family you call drew, dad. I mean, none of that whatsoever. We sort of let it take its own course For the most part, we had the really substantial benefit of there never being any animosity between drew and any of the kids. Yeah, I mean, I think that's huge because I think some some couples who are going through this.

Right. I imagine there's some friction between this new parent. I've seen it, especially if like, this guy comes in and thinks all of a sudden he's dad. Now we're going to discipline these kids and you're going to X, y, z. Drew never did that once. And we've I mean never had like you in a fight with the kids or any.

I don't think that's ever happened. No. And I gotta imagine that a lot of those situations come out of. Yeah, the, the new guy trying to control the situation beyond what he really ought to. Um, you know, it's it's hard because you have to just sort of accept a certain amount of things are out of your control.

And, um, if you can do that, then it's. Then it's fine. I mean, and I think, I think there may be situations where mom is wanting that the dad to come in and. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. And, um, you know, and asking him to take on this role that, you know, maybe the kids aren't ready for. He's not ready for or whatever.

Well, I think in some ways it's like, oh, it's like you're carrying something really heavy and somebody says, can I help you with that? You're like, oh my God. Yes. Yeah. And you dump it on him, you know. And that's the the bit of, you know, caution where your ghost of Christmas future. Um, a little bit to say moms and dad I mean this whatever.

But we're mostly talking to moms on the show. Um, moms, be careful that you dump it all too much, too fast, and and then it doesn't work. I mean, and then you're not going to have any help, right? So it's like Trying to the kids. I think you're probably better to say this to me, but like, it seems that the kids are trying to make sure that even with this new person around, you're still going to love them, you're still going to be their mom.

You're still going to they're still going to be the most important thing to you. You're still going to make their lunch. You're still going to take a minute at night, right? And keeping those duties and roles, and not all of a sudden morphing into another person. I think that's obviously a huge part of it.

Um, you know, you were extremely successful at that very, very consistent. Um, and, you know, there was, I don't think, any question in their minds about any of that. I think there are a lot of things going on. You know, I think that, you know, no two situations are exactly the same. I think that in some cases there's there may be a desire on both the kids and maybe mom's part to sort of Recover the good parts about, you know, whatever the first family dynamic was.

See, I feel. Do you think the kids. I haven't really seen that much that the kids are trying to do that? I didn't see that in our situation. Yeah, but especially if the other parent is involved. I've only mostly ever heard people talk about, like, the resistance or you're not my dad. You're not my mom. Whatever.

Now, if there wasn't, that person is not in the picture at all. I it seems like. Yeah, there could be a quick like,

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you know. Yeah. And actually in that situation, it's actually probably easier, right. Because there's no, there's no tension between actual people. Right. If one of them's just not around. Um, and so, you know, that's why it's hard to come up with hard and fast rules for all of this stuff. As I see it, I think you have to do it what feels right for you.

But I think you have to do it with the understanding of where the kids are coming from and what their situation is. And, um, they're not in charge, but their well-being is kind of in charge. Um, and you have to kind of,

01:20:38.680 — 01:20:57.520

uh, you know, take it at their speed, I guess. But that's all, like, not very specific and not very helpful. Well, we're just I mean, we're not trying to write a how to book. It's just like, these are some of the things I think we did well and some of the things that we didn't do as well. Yeah. Um, I think the overarching

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theme, if I were to give us one that we did, at least as it concerns you drew in your role was to build a relationship with each child, as each child is and was on sort of their terms and let that grow and evolve over time. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and not to rush and I mean it It was. It was not that I was in a good situation because, um, you weren't pushing anything in that direction.

And the kids, uh, you know, as you said, like the it it wasn't that difficult a dynamic with them. Um, and,

01:21:42.700 — 01:25:34.980

um, but there are still lots of ways it could have gotten messed up. And, um, you know, what I tried to do was understand, like, what their situation was and try to just try to just be try to just be good news to them, generally speaking. Right? I mean. Good news. Thank you sweetheart. Um, just kind of, um, you know, I'm there to help.

I'm there to, you know, it's good when I'm around, um, that kind of thing. Not, um, you know, not becoming in and trying to change their expectations of how the day is going to go. Try to change everything they're doing. Change their home. Change the way they interact with mom. Change the way they interact with dad.

You know, all of that stuff. You don't need to do it. And so I tried to just sort of let, um, the relationship evolve naturally from that principle. And with no particular goal in mind. I mean, if whatever outcome would be fine, as long as, um, uh, as long as there wasn't, you know, some conflict being generated or anything like that.

Yeah. And I mean, I think, look, I think we can share this, uh, just the way we conceptualized your role with the kids in the beginning and how that's changed. So, like, the way drew and I thought about this at first is those those are my kids. And we were making a family, but it was a different kind of family.

Um, and I think we a little bit thought about it, like the role, and we've described it in the past of like of a really involved uncle. Right. Who, who has totally invested in the wellbeing of these kids would lend resources and support and everything that they need in that way. But not having the ultimate call, not having the ultimate say, not having the ultimate responsibility, um, as it all was said and done, I mean, you remember that part?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's certainly how it was in the beginning. Right. And, um, yeah. And and that was fun. That was appropriate for our situation at the time. At the time. Yeah. Now, you know, kind of fast forwarding a bit because I'm thinking of a guy, you know, coming into this or a woman dating a guy who's single.

She's got kids. That's a big fear. It's a big fear of a woman with some kids. They're going to be alone forever, right? And that's what the person they're divorcing probably told her. Nobody's ever going to want you. You're going to end up alone. Um, and that's, I think, behind money. I think the number two reason I hear the most why women stay in shitty marriages is because they're afraid they're going to end up alone, right?

And so, remember, the reason you're leaving him is because you're not going to listen to him anymore. He's not the boss of you, right? Yeah. He's not the boss of you. Yeah. Um, and so I think that that allowing some room to consider, you know, from your perspective as a single guy coming in like that gives a lot of insight.

Like, what would it feel like to that guy and the uncle? Let's just say, like, kind of the uncle face. Um, did that allow you some room within your own self to enter into this situation with this woman with three kids without getting, like, overwhelmed and running? Do you think that's part of how it happened?

Yeah. I mean, it's it's just it's just biting off a smaller piece. Um. Of course. I mean, it's it's it's way easier when you're facing something that is life altering and potentially scary and, um, that has a lot of consequences to do it, you know, with a smaller step. And that's essentially what it is. Um, and,

01:25:36.220 — 01:27:08.680

you know, you're not taking on all the responsibility all of a sudden. It's not, you know, it's not instant parenthood. Exactly. Right. It's not like we got married and you in that moment were like, and now I will pay every dollar for these children's college. And now I will make sure and buy their first car like we.

That was not the thought back then. It changed. But at the time that was not the thought. It wasn't like you taking on these kids meant you were 110% on the hook for everything they would ever need. Want the way you would if it was pretend you know they were the children that you'd biologically given birth to.

That was or, you know, been a part of that was not the thinking at first. Right. Right. And I mean, just psychologically, it makes it more approachable as a thing to do. Um, it doesn't because, you know, guess what? Like having having one kid is, is a life altering, hugely significant experience for anybody.

Right. And then to to expect somebody to take on three at one time instantaneously and all of a sudden have all of the responsibility that comes with that. It's just a lot to ask now, maybe some people are willing to do that. Um, and, you know, great for them. But, um, to do it in a sort of more gradual way was certainly I mean, it was just a lot easier for us.

Yeah. And I think, you know,

01:27:09.960 — 01:27:34.060

this is important, y'all, because you may want the guy that you're dating or that you're with from jump to be like, your kids are my kids and everything that I would do. And you know, he or she may they may have their own kids or whatever. Um, but maybe they don't. And I can understand and relate to really wanting and even yearning for

01:27:35.380 — 01:29:34.189

it to be all in from day one and uncharacteristically of myself. To be fair, when I look back at how chill and cool I was about everything, I'm kind of like, whoa, that was that's a big surprise. Now, knowing me the way you know me right now, you're still the chill and coolest. Yeah. Huh? Uh huh. Uh, chill is not one of the top, like, 100 words I would use to describe myself.

Um, drew says I'm very easy about most things. Very uneasy about a few, which I think is accurate, but not chill. No. That's true. Yeah. So, anyway, you may want him to be all the way, all in this new partner from go. And if you have a close mind about what that looks like, you may foreclose yourself from the best thing that's ever happened to you.

And I think that it can be a bit unfair. We got used to all these kids nine months at a time, and then every day thereafter, we put in the investment of wiping booties, of being through the first ear infections, get them to all their appointments, cutting teeth, etc. they weren't there for that. And like I think nature is designed for a reason.

In that way. You survive all of that and you're like trauma bonded to this little creature, if nothing else. Right? And they didn't have that. So allowing yourself to have an open mind that this person can love you and be supportive of your kids and supportive of you without being all things full parenthood from the beginning.

If you can allow for that, it really can allow a lot more room for things to come in and not feel so grippy. Well, yeah. And that's certainly the approach you took, which. Thank you. Uh, you know, um, uh, because, I don't know, maybe we wouldn't be sitting here now if that if you hadn't done that, maybe. I don't think we would have.

It certainly would have been. Well, because experience. Let's talk about. Because if I stop. Well, you're gonna say something else. Well, I just wanted to say that

01:29:35.390 — 01:30:23.330

that said, if that is a non-negotiable point for you, then fine. You know, upfront, say it or be it. Yeah. Just know just know that you're going to you're just shrinking your pool of applicants. Yeah. Um, to, you know, and by making it more difficult to, um, you know, to meet your criteria. But that's no different from any other standard, right?

I mean, if if that's something that you must have and you know it, um, then. Okay, um, There. That may have consequences. But, um, you also, I don't think, should, um, compromise on a non-negotiable point for yourself. I agree. I my just call to these women is,

01:30:24.530 — 01:34:55.209

could you hold on to that loosely? If it's a good man who is a good character, etc., and giving him a little room and kind of see what happens a little bit. Well, and I think that's the point of is it really non-negotiable? Right, right. Is it you may think it is. Is it really. Is it really? Or or could you be open to a different approach and maybe get in there in time?

I mean, because if you don't want me to share this, you can like stomp on my toe. But, you know, when we're very, very, very first dating, um, like months in, you know, you shared with me this, like, fear that, you know, and being with me and with somebody with, with these kids that that you were afraid of not being the most important person in my life the way when you're just dating and just barely first getting married, that's that's it.

One and one. And then you add these kids. Um, and that was a fear of yours back then. So, y'all, this single guy may or may not be willing to say that thing out loud to you, but drew was willing to say that out loud to me. And I, as a mother whose heart has expanded three times at that point to these different children.

Knew it's not like importance and love and all of those things run out. They multiply, right? You get more and you get more and more of it. But you're, you know, you didn't keep that same fear. No. And I mean, you know, in my defense, I couldn't have known. That's what I'm saying. He had no idea. Yeah. And so you know it to me it seemed like an issue of almost resource allocation.

Right? I mean, attention Time. Yeah. And, you know, I was definitely worried about that for sure. Um, and I didn't really know how to deal with it other than to say it. Um, exactly. Um, well, I think that's important. So this really great guy, drew, who's turned out to be the best husband and dad basically on the planet back then, that young single guy we call him drew in a town, just drew in a town.

Didn't want to get his shoes dirty. What are all these children making all this racket about? Kind of travel. The world was his number one priority in meeting the gal. He said, look, I don't know, because how could I be the most important? You would be the most important person in my life. But you've got these kids and you're a good mom, so they're going to be.

So how is that going to work out? And then fast forward, that can change that. I don't mean to say like I definitely do not hear what I'm not saying. I'm not saying like marry this guy based on the potential or the hope that they'll change in the future. I'm not saying that you have to know what you can deal with, and that's why I think it's important in the second or third go rounds.

Try to be with this person a minute. Ladies, before you get engaged or married again in the first go round. Well, yeah, I mean, but probably every. Listen, they already made that. Whoopsie. Dipsy. The first go round we were together three years I think, before we got married. Married yet? Two years engaged.

Um. And that's enough time. Three years is three Christmases, three holidays, three summers somebody died. Something bad happened. Something good to happen, to see that through. So having enough time to see this thing through, allowing some room for someone to maybe not 1,000% check off every single box.

I mean, I wasn't thinking in terms of boxes. We've talked this whole season about pick me energy, and I wanted to be loved like the luckiest pick me ever because it got me to you. Who wouldn't want your bell to pick them? Let's be honest, I don't know. You'd be my first choice to pick me. Yeah. Hashtag alert.

Um. but in that phase, I had an open hand about it. Right. I understood I intuitively knew too much grip, and it would choke this thing and it wouldn't work out. Um, and I'm really glad I did that. I'm really glad that I had an open hand, that I was logical, relatively logical about it. Like, yeah, these kids are not his biological children.

He's not going to necessarily say, oh yeah, I'm paying for all their college now, which was a big thing at the time. At the time, it seemed like a very, very big deal. And it's not that it's not a big deal, but look, it's not his responsibility to come in this late in the game. I had not been saving for their college since they were little bitty.

I was busy getting divorced. You know, so college savings was not up on the priority list. It was like pay off the lawyer eventually. Right. So

01:34:56.490 — 01:35:44.550

that attitude, I think, served us really well. Now, do you want to tell him a little bit of zoom out, how that started to shift and maybe where it is now to just get a sense of the arc? Yeah. And I was trying to think about because for me, you had said like, where was the line of demarcation between, you know, a bunch of people living together and us being like a real family?

I mean, for me, there were kind of like three. Ooh. What what? I don't know what you're gonna say. Well, like another point, which is when, um, you know, your kids also began to feel like my kids, too, which is more than I think they were my family before that happened. I don't I think those are two different, two different points.

I, I can't really

01:35:46.230 — 01:36:26.690

I can't really say exactly when that happened. Um, I think when Penny came. Yeah. I mean, certainly because that was your daughter's siblings that like blood share among it. Even. I mean, as stupid as this sounds, I mean, uh, look, in case the kids are listening, I'm not saying it wasn't before this, but I know for sure by then.

Yeah, it had happened. I certainly it was not after that. Um, and, you know, I think, oh, we had the fire. Yeah. I mean, the fire. So we had a big fire, y'all. And there was something about the pandemic and us all being at home for like, concentrated. Well,

01:36:27.770 — 01:36:30.010

as background, um,

01:36:31.090 — 01:37:15.110

the fire, Hannah's pregnancy and the pandemic were all basically the same time. Yeah. Um, so so it was a it was a moment we, you know, the pandemic starts in like March of 2020. Um, Hannah is pregnant in like, May of 2020. Um, and we have this house fire in like August the 3rd. Yeah, yeah, the day after Hannah's birthday.

Uh, in August of 2020. So all this is happening at one time, but, you know, every day, everybody's just at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that must have contributed to it. Yeah. For sure. Um, and, uh, just proximity and time. I mean, um,

01:37:16.710 — 01:37:18.150

I don't know,

01:37:19.630 — 01:37:37.110

I don't know how it would have gone otherwise, but I think that over time, you spend enough time with, with these kids and kids are different from other people because even if they're older, even if they're teenagers or whatever, they're still dependent on you for so much. Um, and,

01:37:38.550 — 01:37:41.470

um, especially when you're,

01:37:42.670 — 01:37:45.630

you know, when you're married to their other parent,

01:37:46.790 — 01:38:37.770

you know, you, you you do have to always be conscious of how you're modeling things for them. And I was always conscious of that. Yeah. Um, but eventually it just kind of becomes. It kind of just becomes not modeling. It's not like sort of performative. Yeah. I mean, it's it just becomes like, you know, these are these are the kids.

These are our kids we share. It's impossible. I found it to be impossible. Not that I was trying, but I found it to be impossible not to share in their concerns and their little lives. And as they had difficulties and whatever. And as you help out, you become invested in, in sort of how they're doing and how they're turning out.

And, um, you know, um, you really start rooting for them and, um, and.

01:38:40.090 — 01:39:34.910

You know, it, it took it took a few years. But, you know, eventually it's just like, you know, I'm in. I'm, you know, we're all we're all in this whole this whole life together And, um, you know, I really just think it was largely a function of time and, uh, proximity and. Yeah. And, and, um, you know, caring and being involved.

Yeah. Um, and then, of course, Penny comes around and now it's like, well, it's it felt natural to me that. Okay. Yeah. This is like, is there sister? I mean, whatever. I mean, it was never any sort of weirdness or issue about any of that. Um, and I don't and they never treated it that way either. Really? I've always been good to pay.

Yeah, yeah, they've always been great with Penny. I mean, so,

01:39:36.030 — 01:39:36.670

um,

01:39:37.910 — 01:39:57.220

you know, now it's, you know, they're all. They're all just our kids, and that's I, I think that's the point where a lot of people want to start. Yeah. But it we couldn't have. We just weren't there. Yeah, at the time. I mean, now a few other factors. We had a very extreme.

01:39:59.340 — 01:40:21.780

Custody situation happening alongside this. I don't know if you don't have that. And everybody's amicable and, um, get along cause maybe your experience will be very different, I don't know. I mean, that was always happening. So there was this at different points for different ones and whatever this push pull of some sort of outside influence.

01:40:22.940 — 01:41:31.439

So that's one way to put it. Yeah. Okay. Um, and that was happening at the same time. So I think to some extent when that's happening, when you have a big outside influence, whatever is happening in your situation, I think the, the adults involved. To some extent you're on guard. Um, you're on guard against.

And if we could go back to that drew and take him to a therapist or something. He'd probably say like on guard against like psychologically, what could happen? What? What how they could be turned against you. What could maybe happen? What if they turn and they leave? And then you've invested your heart and spirit into these kids, and then they're gone.

Like, I think that there's a bit of, as the adults in the situation of protectionism that we just we don't even intentionally do, but we're going to do it so we don't get hurt. Um, but I think that we can't overstate the impact in our situation in case that is or isn't you, you can relate or throw it out in the trash can, um, to the idea of when you have a situation so

01:41:32.760 — 01:43:33.760

intentionally or unintentionally or whatever, early trying to change how your house is working. Um, that's a horse of a different color and how you deal with it. That's a whole different other thing. I don't even know if we're ready to do that right now, but, uh, Um, but I think for us, ultimately, the open handedness of it allowing it to go on its own.

And I think what starts to happen is to for the kids, they start to look at you not as mom's husband, this guy, but like they're drew and eventually a dad. Not necessarily. You know, each of the kids, I think, thinks of this differently a little bit, but not necessarily like their dad instead of their bio dad, but like a dad.

Yeah. Um, you know Penny. Penny knows that our house, some people have two daddies. Mhm. Right. So I think in a way like okay, I have two dads in a way over time, substantial time. Um, and I think too, when that child starts to look at you like that and they cry and they go one hug from you dad and they're upset and they need to know how to handle a certain situation and they ask you for advice.

Then it kind of calls forth that dad in you write a sort of that call and response in the relationship. Well, and they I think anyway, they, they look for that from, from people who have shown them, you know, acts of kindness and love in the past. Right. And I, you know, if you have been there to support them in whatever other ways in the past, those actions kind of communicate that you're the kind of person in their life that they can expect, uh, love and kindness from.

Well, and I think that the actions piece of that we cannot overstate because

01:43:34.960 — 01:44:48.639

what we've been able to do individually and as a unit has been every single time, over and over again against all odds and all personal preferences and other directions or whatever else is keep acting the way that we should act in the circumstance, even if we felt very differently and those actions were putting the kids first, prioritizing their well-being, their comfort, their safety, their security, their development.

Right? Even if it would felt a lot better to be furious or a lot better to go pout, or a lot better to punish, or a lot better to take things out on others, we just never did it. Ever, ever. Yeah. Which makes it sound. I mean, it makes it sound like we did all these things, like, perfectly or whatever. I mean, we've made a lot of mistakes and, um, you know, a lot of this is trial and error, so.

But but we always had the guide. Yeah, of making the decision that's best for them. And you know, sometimes we've seen it differently. We've never thought about it but we've seen it differently. Like what was the right move in the circumstance? A little bit because you don't. There is no

01:44:49.920 — 01:46:18.660

user manual for our circumstances, for anybody's circumstances, certainly not in ours. Um, there were not a million podcasts and all that at the time, um, about this sort of stuff. So we had no idea we were just flying blind trying to figure it out. Um, but I think we were committed to always doing what those kids needed from us, um, and putting our own personal preferences.

And I think the thing that that you did supremely well, as good or better than anybody I've ever heard of, was never, ever once for even a fraction of a second, making me choose, yeah, between the kids and what was best for them or what I needed to do as a mom, and what you wanted me to do as a wife, as a friend, or as an adult or whatever.

Never putting me in the middle even once. Thank God. That would have ripped me apart. I'd like to have to. You thought I should act one certain way, and this kid shouldn't be able to get away with that. And we have to. Bah bah bah bah bah. And I'm like, oh, I think grace is needed here. You're right. They lied about this thing.

But like, they're having a hard time, you know. And in that moment, if you would have thought that like, we gotta come down harder and I'd have been like, oh, you never said Hannah. It was just like, hey, okay, whatever you think you need to do. And then deferred to the parents, that's that. That's the the rub.

Ultimately, even to this day,

01:46:20.420 — 01:47:05.239

you would defer to me when it comes to at least the big kid says for sure. Yeah. Of course. I mean, I think that's kind of kind of rule number one, right? I mean, but that's not how a lot of people act. True. A lot. I've seen it in, you know, professionally and personally where the new parent thinks things should be handled a certain way, that the in a little bit is like wants the other parent to be on their side, not the kids side.

Especially as kids get older and more teenager, and it feels a bit more like you're dealing with an adult, by the way. Teenagers are not adults. No. Okay. However, when when it's happening, they feel almost adult. They certainly think they're almost adult. Or are adults. Right. But I've seen so many people

01:47:06.480 — 01:47:45.900

do it differently and make this other parent the mom usually, you know, have to choose and you just never did that. Is there anything in particular you you did or thought that you could give advice for people in that situation to to be able to hold on to that theory? Well, I mean, I think, I think it's just like simple enough.

I think it's just it's like a cardinal rule. I think if you're going to be in a blended family situation, Um, you know, you can't. It's got to be an exercise of a little bit of humility about it. Um, you know,

01:47:47.860 — 01:49:15.560

of course you don't have the final say. Of course you don't. I mean, uh, just like you don't have the final say in anything else about their lives. I mean, it's, um, if you take a step back and you think about what if the situation were reversed and you were talking about your kid, um, your biological kid who you raised from day one and someone else coming in and trying to tell you what to do about that.

I mean, you'd be like, yeah, forget that, you know? Of course not. And so and, and and you'd kind of be right to feel that way. Um, and so there's has that been hard at times for you, Really? Uh, no. Not really, because I think some people are like, oh, there's. You'll see stuff about like, there's, you know, being a bonus mom or stepmom is like the worst for these reasons that no one kind of this a little bit like nobody notices you.

It's thankless or something. I mean, so I think that's where this ultimately comes from. I feel, I think there's a certain amount of, um, I mean, I don't know, but I think that a lot of people probably feel like, you know, I've given and given and given so much to these kids. And I still, you know, I don't really get I don't have an equal say.

Yeah. What about me? Yeah. What I it feels it can feel

01:49:16.600 — 01:49:28.080

asymmetrical. Like you're, you're, you're, you're paying in like a parent, but you're not getting out like a parent. Right. And it's just the wrong way to look at it. Okay. Say more. Well, I, you know,

01:49:29.400 — 01:50:09.820

you're first of all, you're not paying in like a parent, even if it feels that way. Um, you're not. And it's. And I can say that because now I've. Now I've seen it from both angles. Um, but, uh, and you weren't there through, like, you know, the first three, like, difficult years. You didn't maybe. I mean, some people are there.

Well, all right, some people are there, but probably you weren't. Yeah. Um, probably you weren't. Uh, and it's not. It's just not that kind of transaction. It's not. It's not a paying in. And you get a rate of return back. It's just not really like that. It's, um, you,

01:50:10.900 — 01:50:18.060

um, if if you value the relationship with mom enough, then

01:50:19.420 — 01:50:26.900

these other people who are her family are going to be in your life, um, if you're going to be in her life. And,

01:50:28.100 — 01:51:05.160

uh, that can be an obligation at first, and that's fine. It is basically an obligation at first. Um, and, you know, and it's okay to, to feel that way about it. If it's an obligation you're willing to take on. Okay, cool. You know, eventually there's a pretty good chance, if you're like, cool about it, you know, that it will not be an obligation forever, that it can just be, um, you know, part of your life as well, and an add on.

And, um, that doesn't mean that it has to be.

01:51:07.760 — 01:51:19.239

As if you were there from day one because you weren't. Um, well, it's like drew, you know, I was reading something or saw something somewhere where the step mom was

01:51:20.960 — 01:51:22.040

essentially

01:51:23.280 — 01:52:34.010

wanting equal time with college move in as the child's mom who'd been involved in the whole thing. It's sort of wanting equality with this kid and want like and sort of seeking that out from the child and getting that. It's like to me in that moment, the way to be a step here. I'm not like trash and step moms or step or anything, but in that moment is let it be child driven.

Yes. Yeah. But also be careful that you don't put the kid in the middle. And if it was me and I was a step mom, like, that's the this is bio mom's moment. This is the her child. Either I have child. I think it happens sometimes with the maybe the the stepmom doesn't have the, you know, bio kids of their own or something.

And they've been there the whole time and very important. But in that moment, I really think what I would do, and I know what you would do, is let that bio parent take the reins and be a part in along for the ride and whatever that is, but not make any part of this child's experience about you and being fair to you and you getting yours in the situation.

Well, so I would maybe adjust that a little. Okay. Okay. Okay. So

01:52:36.010 — 01:53:08.130

I would first of all, in that specific scenario, now you're dealing with an adult. Yeah. And so I would basically let the kid decide. But actually what I would probably do is support you in whatever you wanted to see happen. Um, the bio mom. Yeah. And, um. Or bio dad. You know, if you're the step mom in this situation.

Yeah. And, I mean, there's a certain amount of sweat equity that goes on here, too. I mean, when you say step, step mom, step dad, you know,

01:53:09.770 — 01:53:29.910

you maybe making some assumptions about where the kid lives. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Primarily. Right. I mean, um, I think it's different if if the kid is living with, um, you know, with the step parent most of the time, as opposed to not. Right. And I think

01:53:30.990 — 02:00:02.950

they're not as a stepparent. You're not really entitled to anything. Um, but I think the that a kid in that situation would naturally want a different outcome. Yeah. And I guess because I don't mean I don't want to make it sound like I'm coming off too hard on any of it. I mean, and it's different. I'll say this.

It's difficult to navigate. And what we're saying is not simple. It's not easy. It's not necessarily rewarding. It can be very rewarding. And I think it has been for you and for us. Um, but it's like just not making the kids thing about you, I think, is the ultimately, at the end of the day, at least what's best for the kids.

Now, there's a whole different set of podcasts about, like being a step parent, how to do that, how to protect yourself and your energy. Given all that you give and all the things that you do too. Right. Like, I mean, that's a whole different thing, I guess, in this, this moment. I'm talking about it from the perspective of the kids, um, and how they feel.

And it's like, especially at that age. Right. Letting them drive. But then, yeah, I guess deferring to your partner who is the bio parent and kind of doing what it is that they want you to do in that moment. It's hard when they're younger, you know, when it's summer camp drop off. We've been there. Yep. That sure can be a sticky wicket.

Yeah. Um, and yeah, I would say summer camp drop off is definitely harder than college drop off. Yeah, it. Oof! Yeah. Um. It's tough. And the thing is, you gotta remember, there's a little baby pumpkin in the middle of that whole thing. So as much as you can be cool. And if you're not the bio parent, there's four people involved.

You got two step parents and two bio parents. The child will have enough to worry with and deal with between those two bio parents. If it's not the most like, you know, Pollyanna situation, even if it is, maybe without adding the complexities of all the stepparents feelings and wants. And what about me ness?

And look, I think it takes so much, like you said, humility and so much patience and so much goodness to be a stepparent, because that's true. Like, hey, in this crucial moment where you've been really important in these kids lives, you may have to take the back seat. You may even get a little shit on that day, and nobody may give a shit about what's happening to you and how you feel that day, because they are already all caught up in their own BS.

Yeah. And you may feel a little bit on the outside and whatever. And I think that the job of this stepparent, this bonus parent, whatever you call this person, um, really is such a testament to me about how much they love the person that they're with, that they're willing to continue in these situations to get the short end of the stick.

If you're just looking at from their perspective, if this was a stepparent podcast, right? Um, just from their perspective and just from how they would feel as a human being in those situations without thinking necessarily about the kid in that moment. But just like how you would feel, it can be thankless and really hard.

And for those who keep doing it, I mean, and just like for all I mean, all that you've done, we've talked about it a million times, but on the podcast, like how grateful I am, the way you showed up and all these circumstances. Never demanding. Never. What about me? Never mad at the kid for how they made you feel about.

I mean, something like that. Like just didn't treat you treated them as an equal in the sense of how you cared for them, but not in an equal as how you received for them. Mhm. You did not need them to fill you up. And I think maybe you can say well I'll say that part of that is because, because you treated it that way.

I mean you know, I didn't need as much gratitude from them because I got it from you. And so mom's. That would be a that's a good idea. You know, make sure you're, you know, that, um, or that stepdad knows that he's appreciated. Yeah. Like, one of the things we did is one of his father's day. The kids would be with their bio dad, and so we had stepfather's day.

Happy step, father's day step. Father's day is all different. Yeah. Stepfathers get, you know, special favors on that day and stepfathers get, like, I don't know, one time we made we switched to room anyway like a big a big sort of nod to the man ness of the thing. Like, I guess it was kind of the joke that we would have the stepdad, um, thing like, oh yeah, everybody would rather have a stepfather Day than it Father's Day.

Just a kid. We're just kidding. Um, but maybe, like, can I have stepfathers? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe not. Yeah. Um, but it's like a celebration of us as a couple. And the role that you played a stepdad, we just made it our own little thing of, like, Step Father's Day. And thank I mean, I'm very vocal in my appreciation in general as a person, but particularly about this.

And we do like in our house to this day, we say gratefulness, um, instead of like a prayer thing. We just kind of go around and everybody says something that you're grateful for. Each day when we sit down for dinner, whenever we have family dinner, whenever that is, or whoever is there in the family who's ever sitting there, we're going to do it at dinner.

Um, the kids know there's no resistance. They like doing it. The rule is, you can't only say you're grateful for your food. You can be grateful for your food, but you got to be grateful for something else, too. Um, and I use a lot of my gratefulness for drew and what he does for us and our family and such a great dad, etc..

So it's like, I think there's ways, like you said, drew, that as the partner, you can do the pouring in. And for those stepparents in that situation, allowing that sort of scratch the itch or feel the need that these little children are not equipped to do and and not necessarily going to do or anything. You know.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think there's, there may be a temptation like, you know, if someone's thinking, well, I'm, I'm happy to trade, I'm happy to give, um, stepdad more authority if he's willing to also accept some more responsibility and, you know, okay. That's fine. But just remember that, like, your kid didn't agree.

You didn't agree to any of that. Right? Right. So, you know, like, there's sort of another another important party here and that they don't really get a say. So, you know, ultimately, um,

02:00:04.950 — 02:00:12.590

you know, you can't you can't really ever be in an identical position. Um,

02:00:13.790 — 02:01:01.570

I say that as I say that I'm thinking, well, I probably shouldn't be that, uh, like, ever word ever. But it's not the most results. Not typical if that happens. Yeah. I mean, maybe, you know, I think in a situation where the, um, bio other bio parent is, is gone for whatever reason, dead or in prison or whatever, uh, you know, that's maybe different, right?

But, um, you know, I think as a step parent, your job is to exercise some humility and remember that you're never you're also not really taking on, um, all of the responsibility either. Um, so it's, um, you know, but I think the way that you've,

02:01:02.610 — 02:02:05.589

um, you know, you've always been so vocal about, um, being grateful for, you know, what I've done, it's helped a tremendous amount, um, just Psychologically and subconsciously. Um, I think we've just allowed each other the space to grow into it. And I think that would be the overarching theme. It's a good way to be in a relationship is to recognize.

And we both do. I think a pretty good job of this, that this is an individual having their own life experience. You are an extra in their movie. You are your own individual having your own life experience, and they're an extra in your movie and allowing that person to go on their journey and develop along the way in a way that feels comfortable for them and not forcing it.

And I think fear makes us want to force it because you're afraid, um, you're afraid of how it's going to go, and you want this part of your life settled and handled. You were divorced. It feels really good to be back in a family again, and you'd like it to feel like all the good parts of the family from the beginning.

Now

02:02:07.590 — 02:08:37.299

it takes time. Like you didn't get that family feeling in the other situation overnight either. right? It took at least nine months, um, plus them to get there. Well, and it wasn't. And it wasn't good enough for you not to leave. So maybe you don't want it back again. Maybe you want something different and new.

Yeah. And maybe you should embrace that. And I think that's some of the things. You know, just a few, maybe rapid fire tips. True that we could say, um, tips for blending the family. Just like quick things that we've done. One of those would be establish new traditions as soon as possible. True. Is the king of traditions at our house.

In your new family. Established traditions right away. Um. This is what we always do. Or we always have pizza on Friday nights. This is how we always do Christmas. That kind of stuff, I think really gels your unit. It's no different from traditions or symbols in society at large, right? They they are part of what gives a a culture or a family or a town or whatever the group of people it is, it's part of what gives it their it's identity and and bonds people together through that identity.

And so yeah I mean it can be as silly as you want, but um, it and, you know, to a certain extent you got to force it on people and, uh, and that's okay. Um, you know, present company included. Yes. I now really love watching It's a Wonderful Life on Christmas Eve, but it took me a few years to really. Yeah. Settle in.

Yeah. I mean, there have definitely been times in our house where I'm like, you know, definitely, uh, Shanghai people in the Christmas court. Yeah, yeah, the Christmas Cup. But I'm glad I did, because now we love it. Yeah. Now it's that's that's part of what it means to be in our family. Yeah. And what about you?

Any other rapid fire blended family tips? Um, well, I mean, we've already said some of them, right? I mean, um, so I'm trying to think of something we haven't already said. Get your estate planning documents in order. Oh, yeah, that's one that's a thing you need to be doing. Because if you don't have your powers of attorney done right now and some sort of an estate plan wherever you live, you need to get that done.

Period, period. Because if something happens to you the way that your state, especially the way Texas handles it, may not be the way you would want it handled. So that is not something to sleep on. You need to get updated estate planning documents done. I know that for sure. Yeah, I don't recommend forcing kids to call a stepparent mom or dad as a general practice.

I mean, if if the kid wants to, that's different. But, uh, I don't recommend that. I think it's I think you're just asking for trouble in a lot of potentially different, uh, relationship ways and, you know, potentially in court, um, you know, it it signals that you're trying to minimize the role of their biological parent.

And, um, you know, and in many cases, that's exactly what the person is doing. But even if you have the right intentions, um, it's not worth it. Don't do it. Yeah. If, unless the, if the kid wants to and and that feels natural to everybody then that that may be different. But let them lead. Yeah. Another one I was thinking is do not talk shit about the other parent in front of these kids.

Period. Mhm. Uh that's and the kids, as they grow they get more and more sensitive. They know what you mean. They know what the size mean. They can feel the energy doing your best to speak positively, at least not negatively. Do not air your feelings, your dirty laundry to these kids, especially the younger they are.

I think there comes a point as they get older, that there's a little bit more just sharing of facts that you did than you did when they were younger, because they're old enough. They gotta think for themselves. Um, there is the divorce poison book I talk about a lot. Um, that is very helpful for thinking this through, because also, you don't want to say nothing about what's happening, because if the other parents talking a lot of shit about you, that may be the only narrative they have.

So that one, if you're in a super high conflict situation, I highly recommend you get that book, divorce poison and, um, respond with facts that are appropriate to the age of the kids and then also leave well enough alone. And the kids have two different stories and two different sets of circumstances sometimes, and they just have to figure it out.

And it sucks a lot and it just is what it is. Yeah. I mean facts not opinions, right? Yeah, facts. Not opinions. Um, yeah. Any other pro tips? No, I mean, it it sounds like we're telling them in some ways that in this situation, maybe, maybe you do kind of need to save some of it for later. Yeah. You know, say, say, say, you know, maybe you want to get to a place X, but if that's if that's not a place that is reasonable to expect at first, then maybe, um, maybe you should save some of it for later in this search.

Yeah, we save it for we save some things for later, like money. I mean, you have to be smart and strategic. It's not in the things of, like, scarcity. So, like, are you doing it for. Oh, that's a good way to say it. Are you saving it for later from strategy or from scarcity. Yeah. We don't save it later for later from scarcity, but we do from strategy.

Um, I think doing family dinners where you eat together around the table as often as possible. Yeah. Add in that gratefulness thing that I explained to you all. I think that's very key to our families cohesion. And even whenever we do it now, to this day, whichever kid somebody will say, and I'm really grateful that we're having family dinner and we call it, oh, family dinner when everybody's there, nobody's in a practice.

Nobody's gone for the weekend. Whatever. Um, having family dinners, that's part of the tradition thing, but I think we've done that really well. Yeah, yeah. No, I completely agree with that. I'd like to say try to try to be kid driven on like visitation type stuff also. But I feel like that's advice maybe too case specific.

Yeah, I just know I know what you mean. It's like that can be nuanced and is a whole different other like Q&A episode we could do or something, but it's more like, uh oh yeah. Like if you have questions for me to answer, that could be a fun episode we could do for next season. Um, but would be

02:08:38.420 — 02:11:36.920

dealing with custody. I think the way to say it is remember to keep the main thing, the main thing, give in when it serves you and the children don't when it doesn't. And then I mean that if I stronger, the more conflicts there is in the circumstance. And that's a whole different other thing. That's judo level stuff that we'd be talking about.

Um, you know, another thing is keep exchanges as minimal as possible. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean. And get our family wizard. Yeah, I get our family wizard 1,000% to help with that, to keep the communications streamlined as possible. And when you meet, if possible, let it not be the parent in the bio. The two bio parents meeting.

If there's a high conflict situation because the kids will dread it, they're going to be scared. Is there going to be drama? If somebody's going to yell, is there going to be a lot of hot? Look in the early, early, early stages of the breakup of my marriage, I spent a decent bit of time in the parking lot arguing with their dad while they sat in the car and watched.

I'm so embarrassed now that I did that. I didn't know at the time, because I was so caught up in my own emotions and what I needed to deal with. This was the only moment, but those little faces I can see one in particular with all three of them, just like over the back of the car staring at me. Yeah, one time it was even with the kids, other parent, uh, other stepparent.

If I could go back in time, I would never do it. I would never spend not one minute in that parking lot with those kids watching. So what we ended up doing that was a super pro hack for us is having someone, um, a babysitter sort of person and any sort of person helper be the person to do the exchanges. So it removed from the kids any fear or anxiety or worry about anything happening.

For me personally, it removed me from any of the same, um, with having to deal with it, any potential for any kind of situation because I didn't have to do that. Yeah, that's a really that's really a great point. I mean, that that, um, that made a world of difference for us. Yeah. And yeah, it was it was huge.

That was huge. If there is any kind of conflict, believe me, if you have to drive for Uber to make it happen, it is worth the money to make that happen. Driving for Uber is great. I'm not casting shade on anything with Uber. Um, okay, my last pro tip for blending a family that I have. Or did you have one where you think of something?

Well, I was going to say it's not exactly a tip, but as much as I would recommend the stepparent deferring to mom, stepdad deferring to mom. Um, that does not mean deferring to dad. Right. Your allegiance is to one side of this, uh, of this bio of the bio parents. Um, you do not need to defer to if the other bio parent tries to tell you what to do.

I mean, I would just take your orders from mom. Um, you know, you don't have to take your orders from from dad to. I mean, that guy's probably a jerk anyway.

02:11:39.120 — 02:13:56.830

Yeah. And that one can get a little complicated. I'm thinking of different hippos, but, yeah, I guess my last pro tip would be to have a bridge, baby, if it works in your life and in your circumstances. Little Penelope Belle is such a joy, and I think has really, really done so much for our unit and for our family.

It wasn't why or anything. We decided to have a baby. We just wanted to. Um, but she has been such a joy and I think it's so good for all of us in our story. And it doesn't mean it wasn't without some thoughts and feelings and things, but the kids, they love that girl, and I think it's just such a joy. So I do recommend a bridge baby if it is within your circumstances.

Um, in every sense of the word to do that, I think it could be really great for your, like, core unit. Yeah. Yeah. All right. True. As we wrap up, uh, this episode now, do you have any. We've talked about this before, but do you have any not saving it for later from a scarcity perspective. I love that we came up with that this time.

Trademark, huh? Um, do you have any? Not saving it for later moments lately? You can think of I, I know of one from like, literally yesterday. From literally yesterday. Oh, Yeah. Oh, yeah. You even said it, so. Yeah. I mean, this this really is. It's classic. Um, you know, so I have, um, like many people, I have some, um, wine glass orphans, um, that were once the a part of a of a proud set of wine glasses.

But as they slowly get broken over, the years are now sort of the last ones. And I have this particular one that nobody's really liked all them. It's the worst. It's. But but it has managed to survive. And it has a big fat stem like big. Yeah. I'm trying to like I'm doing it. Yeah. So, you know, it's there on its lonesome.

I have plenty of other wine glasses, but, um, it was. I was just having one glass of wine last night with dinner, and I figured that wasn't worth getting out. The ones I really liked. My new ones. Um, despite the fact that it takes the same amount of time to wash the new one, as does the old one. But it was like I would be like using the new one up somehow.

02:13:57.870 — 02:14:43.910

Uh, and so I use this one that nobody likes and, uh, you know, I sat down and thought, well, this is exactly the the point, I guess. Yeah. It's like us in our dishes. I still do it with spoons and all of that. Um, me. It was my special jacket. If you're just listening to this, I'm wearing about the coolest jacket that ever existed.

Yes, from Alice in Olivia today with this, like, beading. And it's a bomber style, but it has, like, birds and flowers, and I just love it in sequins and all kinds of stuff. Um, and I almost wasn't going to wear it today because, well, you know, it's really special. I was like, what could be more special than going and shooting a podcast with my sweet husband?

So duh. But I mean, that would be mine. Um, for the one I mean, literally every day, pretty much I could think of. Oh, you look absolutely incredible. Oh, thank you dear. Um.

02:14:45.150 — 02:15:07.089

Uh, heart or heart? Okay, look, I got all dizzy. I can't even remember what the other questions are. Um, okay, I guess. Is there anything lately that's been your dominant thought, right? Like, what's been your dominant thought the last couple of weeks? Well, my dominant thought. I mean, I think we recorded our last episode right before

02:15:08.090 — 02:16:27.430

we, uh, we're moving right before we were bought. Well, right before we bought the house. Oh, yeah. Um, and so since then, we've bought our new house, and we've basically remodeled the whole thing, and, um, we've moved, and that process is finally coming to a close. It's been a long, almost six month process where that has sort of consumed a lot of our free time and energy and all of that.

And so I've just been very, you know, grateful not to be back to normal, but to be sort of finally into our new, our new life, which is very exciting. Our the birds at our house. I, I officially am joined drew in the bird nerd. I eat a lot of bird nerd shit, because I'd always give you a hard time about being a bird nerd.

And like, one of his stepdad things was. There's this one picture of drew with his binoculars, literally in like, this ray gear and his Keens, and like, maybe even a little journal or something. Looking at birds, I was like, this is this is a stepdad picture. Like, this is not a bad thing. But anyway, so I'd give drew and now Mother's Day is coming up.

Yeah. Um, you better not give me binoculars to look at births for Mother's Day.

02:16:28.630 — 02:16:54.690

Um, but now I've officially converted to the bird nerd status. Because they're my birds. Our birds. The birds who share the property with us outside on the porch. The birds are so loud, it seems like it's fake. Like someone's turned up the volume on the soundtrack. Loud, cool. It's the absolute best. Okay.

Last thing. If you could only tell the women of divorce land one thing. Part two.

02:16:56.010 — 02:16:58.290

Mhm. What would you tell them?

02:16:59.450 — 02:17:07.490

Um, I think last time I, I tried to sort of say don't be, don't be too afraid of things out there. Um, I think,

02:17:09.450 — 02:17:55.749

um, I think we've talked a lot about like open mindedness and I think I would just encourage everyone to just, you know, be open minded about what is, you know, really possible for your, your life. And, um, you know, if you think that you need XYZ, you should really question whether those requirements are really requirements, because every requirement you have like that, you are, um, sort of limiting your possibilities in some way, and that might be appropriate.

I mean, some things are required, but I think for a lot of us, it's less than we think. And

02:17:56.750 — 02:18:38.750

I think especially if you're feeling like, um, you know, things aren't going quite right. I think maybe reexamining that stuff might, might give you, I don't know, some new possibilities. Yeah. I mean, I think it's how we're both sitting here. I think you had an open mind about this gal with her three kids.

I had an open mind about what blending a family would look like and what my experience with that had to be. Um, and it had an openness to how that turned out. And I'd say it turned out pretty good for the both of us. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for coming. You're going to come back for season three? Of course. Yeah. If I'm invited.

Yeah. You're invited. Duh. Okay. It's the thing. All right. Thanks, everybody.