KOLE .txt

English (US)

01:00:00.520 — 01:01:22.770 · Speaker 1

Let's be honest. Most of us were taught to wait our turn to tone it down to save it for later. Later, when the kids are grown. Later when the timing is right. Later when you finally stop caring what they think. Well, I'm done waiting. I'm Hannah Henry Bell, Texas divorce lawyer, mom and woman who rebuilt her life from the wreckage.

This is not saving it for later. The podcast guiding women through divorce and beyond. The place where we stop whispering about what's hard and start talking about what's real. Marriage. Divorce. Money. Motherhood. Faith. Sex. Power. No filters, no fake empowerment BS, just straight talk and practical truth for women who are done pretending that everything's fine because your next chapter isn't waiting on permission.

And neither are we. Hey everyone! I am super excited for this episode! Today I am here with my friend Cole Whitney, who is a woman who needs no introduction. I could give her 1000 introductions, and I think it's best if she tells you a little bit about who she is. So Cole, how could you describe yourself to the women of Divorced Land as we encounter you today?

01:01:22.770 — 01:02:05.420 · Speaker 2

Well, I could say a lot of one will never scratch the surface. Like you said, I've had lots of jobs and lots of things, and I think today what's most relevant is I've been divorced and I'm remarried in an incredible relationship because I didn't just leave the first time and take myself with me into a new relationship.

But it's like all of this self work and the things that I did on myself, my husband did on himself, how that translated into transformational work with thousands of people at this point, podcasts, you name it, that. I'm just passionate about people connecting to their authentic self and enjoying their life because it's just too short to not take action.

Start to be the narrator of your story and doing the hard things sometimes.

01:02:05.580 — 01:03:24.940 · Speaker 1

Well, and you know, I think you touched at the very beginning, like of your journey, a theme that we've talked about across all of the episodes we've been shooting. And one of those things, I learned it from my own personal experience, and I think a lot of women learn it the hard way, is that we, you know, jump out of the frying pan and into the fire or wherever you go.

There you are. You talked about doing that differently. I think the default patterning in people is to bring forward the patterns that got them into that situation, that pick me energy, that I need you to fill the hole that my daddy didn't energy or whatever it is that got them in that situation, and then carrying that energy forward into their next relationship and maybe eventually the next marriage.

And these are the people who might find themselves divorced two times. Three times. Four times more than that. Because each time I think they bring their same patterning and they're looking for this person to, you know, Jerry Maguire, like, you complete me. So can you rewind a little bit in time to that Cole of back then?

And it sounds like you didn't do that. Like how did you not do that? Did you know at the time that you didn't want to like. And how kind of. How old were you? Can you give us some context of how that came about?

01:03:24.940 — 01:04:28.270 · Speaker 2

So fast forward or rewind, I guess let's not fast forward yet. I want to see what happens. But if we rewind, you know, I came from a religious background, born and raised in Utah. So divorce is not something that is socially acceptable, really. And I had moved to New York City very young, 18 years old, 19 years old, went after my dreams and had a realization that I wasn't happy.

Things weren't really working the way that I thought, and maybe I was wrong. Maybe I was supposed to get married in the house and the picket fence and do that whole thing. So I moved back to Utah, married someone that my mom and parents really liked. That was Mormon. And I thought, well, maybe, maybe I just need to do the marriage thing.

You know, forget the whole dream thing. We were married. Like six months later, super fast, and I tried. Well, the first problem. Problem number one, I was 23 years old. Is the idea that marriage is hard. But I didn't know what is, what's hard and what's dysfunctional. Yeah. And there was no metric for that.

01:04:28.310 — 01:05:10.680 · Speaker 1

Well, because you know what? Like right there. Nobody. At least then. Certainly then, you know. But I think that, like, generally speaking, our parents don't teach us about marriage except by living in their own right. Like no one tells you you hear these phrases. Marriage is hard. You have that expectation.

You'd want to be a reasonable person and not think that it's supposed to be Cinderella fairy tale, right? So that's happening, but it's like we're not educated about what is possible, what is normal. I mean, I relate to you. I was 21 when I got married and didn't know nothing about nothing? About nothing.

Yep. Um, so. Okay, so you're back there. You're back in Utah and thinking, okay, what's hard? What is that going to look like?

01:05:10.720 — 01:05:27.960 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Look, on paper, he was a nice guy. He came from a great family. And so I literally because so much of my life I was an at risk youth. I didn't graduate from high school, so I kind of always was against the grain and nontraditional and not, quote unquote, normal. And yeah.

01:05:28.000 — 01:05:29.160 · Speaker 1

So yeah, you're not.

01:05:29.200 — 01:06:23.250 · Speaker 2

Yeah. No. And I don't want to be. Thank you so much. Look at the divorce rates. Normal. I actually in some ways, I'm very normal. Um, and what I saw that was. Oh, well, I should just marry the nice guy. I was being too picky. I'd actually been engaged twice before 23, and at this stage, I was just like, maybe it's just me.

And it was very easy. Easy for me to default that it's something wrong with me, and I was willing to take responsibility in my in my own ways at 23 until 2627 when we got divorced. But there was also I was operating from so much shame and so much guilt because of who I believed myself to be or not to be, that I pretty much would just say, oh, but he's the nice LDS guy.

So this is a meat issue. And I did that for a long time. And because I didn't have anyone to, you know, marriage is hard. And I was also taught you don't talk about your marriage to other people.

01:06:23.410 — 01:07:22.610 · Speaker 1

Yeah. You sort of like it's it's a against God's will. Like you honor your husband, right. So for for people listening, I think a lot of people who would listen to this show or who do grew up with some sort of religious like for me, I'm from East Texas, and definitely it was sort of like, you don't gossip about your husband to your friends.

You don't talk about your marriage to other people. You stay faithful to your marriage. You know, this whole idea is women. The men. The man is the head of the household. Women are supposed to be subservient, and servant is the man's helpmate and the wrong making for any sort of departure from that. It doesn't give you any room to, you know, and that's how we that's how we develop our identity as we grow up, is we're sort of norming as teenagers against the other people around us.

But this religious upbringing can create this box. Like, you can do that about everything else, but not about your marriage. And you just have to figure that shit out on your own.

01:07:22.610 — 01:08:17.020 · Speaker 2

Well, and even aside from the religious part, I grew up in Utah, so whether or not I was ascribing to the religion personally, a lot of the beliefs that things were so ingrained in me culturally that religion or not, it was a big part of who I was. I was a very loyal person. Yes. I was a very, you know, I'd go on two dates with someone, were together like, that's, you know, that's how I operated then.

And so going into this situation, I was like, I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to stick with it no matter what. You know, like that kind of mentality affixed into the situation to the point where there was a lot going on that was wildly inappropriate at best, or, you know, at worst at times and dealing with things that, you know, I'm not.

My interest is not to air his personal experience. That's for him to navigate. But it was things that were pretty extreme, um, that I didn't know until.

01:08:17.140 — 01:08:28.180 · Speaker 1

Are there any parts of it you're comfortable sharing? What I'm asking is not because I don't like I mean, you know, I don't I know you don't ascribe to a victim mentality, and we're not trying to get make any.

01:08:28.180 — 01:08:29.140 · Speaker 2

More for context.

01:08:29.180 — 01:08:43.500 · Speaker 1

But just for context for somebody listening who's like, oh, I wonder if something I'm experiencing is what she means. They're still in those same boxes. They're still in a space where they don't know, oh, everything's okay. I mean, he just gets a little mad sometimes.

01:08:43.539 — 01:10:00.680 · Speaker 2

Yeah. So we didn't have. We never fought. That was not a thing, really, until the end when you're just butting heads all of the time. Or we were butting heads all the time before that. We didn't fight. And part of that was because I, I refused to until I was pushed far enough that I would be probably the more explosive one out of the two.

So it seemed like everything was fine because we never fight. But the truth was, we didn't speak our truth. We didn't share what was really going on on the inside. He didn't share the finances with me. He took out loans I didn't know about in credit cards. I didn't know about buying me gifts on cards that maybe other women would appreciate.

I didn't. I didn't resonate with sparkly things in a big diamond ring and whatever, especially at the cost of going into debt. And so he would make financial choices that it was like I had no option in, and that I didn't even want that I felt were status symbols for him to other people, not as a gift to me. It was a gift to himself.

And as I started to see things like that stack up, um, there were situations of pawning things and then not paying the pawn back on time. And, you know, for the first few years of the relationship, I made more money. And so a lot of the stuff that I was paid for was I was kind of holding it down, and it felt like he had access to other resources, is all I'm going to say.

Okay, I didn't write.

01:10:00.920 — 01:10:04.000 · Speaker 1

You were all in on this is it was this or or you're screwed. Right.

01:10:04.040 — 01:11:13.440 · Speaker 2

Well, I mean, I never even believed in that, because when he came from money, I didn't. And I didn't need it because I had lived without it, so I didn't need that. And really, that's the things that really brought everything to a head were behavioral things that he as I started to work on myself because at 27, I was really 26.

I was so sick. Hypothyroidism. I'd had multiple ovaries or not. I had one ovarian torsion, I'd had multiple laparoscopy, I had severe fibromyalgia, migraines, all of these things that I thought I just got dealt a bad body. And what it was was it was everything I hadn't dealt with. And it was like all of the emotions, all of the repressed situations, things I hadn't gotten support with from childhood to my teens that were now showing up in this marriage, was my body screaming, and it was like the pain was all of the emotions I couldn't feel.

And so the pain gave me something to process. The pain gave me something else to focus on, and it almost saved me from dealing with the marriage. And then I got into animal rescue. So I would have five dogs at a time.

01:11:13.520 — 01:11:14.240 · Speaker 1

I'll keep you busy.

01:11:14.240 — 01:11:33.840 · Speaker 2

That'll keep you busy, right? And it'll make you feel good. And you can get unconditional love that doesn't judge you or shame you, or hurt you or throw you under the bus. And that was really the moment. There were two specific things that happened where I was like, this has gone too far. One was in an intimate moment.

He took it into, you know, we were in a

01:11:34.880 — 01:12:00.050 · Speaker 2

we are having relations as adults do in, in their marriage. And he got Physically. Well, the short version is he smacked me and to him he thought that maybe that's something that I wanted was a more aggressive sex life or something, and there was an energy to it that actually felt very disrespected and resentful.

And so it's not that it even hurt, but I could feel the energy behind it. He was like.

01:12:00.090 — 01:12:00.650 · Speaker 1

Yeah.

01:12:00.690 — 01:13:13.020 · Speaker 2

Yeah. And so that really took me aback. Um, there was that part. And then there was another situation where he was drinking and doing things that nobody knew about. And it's something that I don't publicly, again, I'm not here to, like, air out all of it. Um, and at the same time, I protected him for a really long time from people knowing that because I didn't, I saw the shame, I saw the guilt.

And so between the two things, he ended up getting arrested. And coincidentally, the weekend before I was going to a retreat to figure out if I was going to end the marriage, for reals. Like we were separated at that point. And I think that unconscious self-sabotage behavior, it's like something would always happen with him that then I couldn't care for myself.

Yeah, at least that's how my perspective. Right. And so that happened the night before I was supposed to leave for the weekend to go and like, really explore things. At this point, I'd turn my diet around. I'd lost 50 pounds. I had been, you know, working out, and I stopped the diet I was on, which was really wine to go to sleep with, sleeping pills to try to stay asleep, energy drinks to wake up.

Yeah. You know.

01:13:13.060 — 01:13:15.100 · Speaker 1

And died of a lot of Americans.

01:13:15.140 — 01:14:10.670 · Speaker 2

Yes. And because I didn't feel safe and because I didn't feel safe, I couldn't sleep, let alone next to someone. So I'd fall asleep on the couch watching TV every night. I didn't make that connection until later. And as I made the connection, it was like, oh, hold on. Like, I don't feel safe here in a very, you know, the the migraines helps me get out of things or going to family events.

The fibromyalgia made the pain so significant he couldn't touch me. And so as I started to kind of track all of these things going on, as my health improved, as I started to choose me, as I started to create boundaries and say no and say, this isn't okay with me, actually. And then that moment. And then there was a moment he threw me under the bus with my own parents.

Um, he went into a gas station, he was buying beer, and my dad walked in. My dad is LDS. My family are Mormon.

01:14:10.670 — 01:14:12.910 · Speaker 1

Oh, and this is Kohl's, correct.

01:14:13.390 — 01:16:22.760 · Speaker 2

So he walks in. My dad sees him buying beer and he says, oh, I'm buying it for Cole. Nicole is my full name. Oh, I'm buying it for Nicole. She takes it with her sleeping pills to go to sleep, which was not true. Now I drank and then I took a sleeping pill when it's time for bed. Not at the same time. And that's a whole other story for another day.

But it was to not even take any sort of responsibility at all. And how often that had been happening. And I was like, you have the nerve to do that to me and my parents? The thing is, I was honest with my parents at this stage of my life. I wasn't I wasn't lying to them anymore. And my dad when the next day I went to go get my ex-husband, my husband out of prison or out of jail, whatever you call it.

And I was on the phone with my dad, called him at four in the morning, and I said, listen, y'all, um, there's some things you don't know about that's been going on. I'm not ready to talk about it, but I need you to trust me. I'm leaving him for good, and you're just going to have to trust me. And my dad said, you can't call me at 4:00 or 430 in the morning and say that, not tell me what is going on.

Yeah, right. So I just told him, started to tell him, and they were shocked because they didn't know. And then I saw how I was enabling behavior. His family sure didn't know. I called his brother. I said, I'm still going on this retreat this weekend. I'm not cleaning up these messes anymore. I got to go take care of me.

You know where he is. I recommend you check in on him because this is no longer my responsibility. And so, because I was still going to this retreat, my dad, I was driving to Los Angeles. My dad said, you're still going to make that drive after being up all night? I said, I have to make. I'm going. And he said, then let me drive you to Las Vegas and you can continue tomorrow morning the rest of the way.

And we sat in that car ride, and I'll tell you, that changed my relationship and deepened it with my dad, because I finally told him the whole truth. And he said, you know, I got in this car I was going to tell you. Marriage is hard. And baby, stick it out. He's like, and I can't do that anymore.

01:16:23.040 — 01:16:24.719 · Speaker 1

Hmm. You know, I think

01:16:25.800 — 01:18:48.700 · Speaker 1

each of us who's been through a divorce. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing that with me. And second, we have those moments, I think, in a book the authors talk about writing a beat, right? There's the beat and you have the beat. And I have these flash moments, the conclusion of my marriage that I remember, those things that stick out.

And one of the things we all have in common who've been through divorce, like one of the silver linings that some of y'all may not be able to fully grasp yet or don't give a shit about yet. But you will, is that those of us who have this collective experience, we're like members of the club, right? We've all got a t shirt.

There's something that we know, and one of those t shirts, you know, one of the rules of the club is we all remember those specific moments where these things happen. And one of the things I always say is you get to be bitter or better for somebody bitter or better, and you get to choose. Yes. And with those beats, with those moments in the conclusions, the really hard stuff, the really bad stuff.

Every time I hear anybody tell the story when it was their decision, right. I mean, in 70% of divorces are filed by women. So, um, it's usually the woman telling the story where she, this really terrible thing happened. And from that, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was the final straw in a in a big pile of straws.

Now for you. And I think women respond to that in one of two ways. Number one, they do what you did. You know, they reach out for help. They call, they get some support and then start on this path to better. And then I think some other sometimes women will sit in the hurt and the victim, like both of us, as we were just talking about this, started to tear up.

Like I joined the energy of you. In that moment, I could feel myself in the car with your daddy, like sitting in that and never making the choice to rise up out of it. So can you, in your mind, you know, put yourself back there. Did you feel like there there was a path or a choice to make? Is there is there a word you would have for someone who's in that moment?

They've had these beats. They've had these moments. They're not sure. Is this something I'm going to look back on later and say, okay, that's the moment I knew that it was over. That's the moment. And then. And then if they're thinking that, can you speak to them about how you were able to and how they might be able to take that moment and then make their choice better or better?

01:18:48.740 — 01:19:02.660 · Speaker 2

You know, my mother said something to me that reframed the whole situation. Mhm. She said to me, what are you willing to fight for the marriage, the money, the house, you know, whatever. For dogs we'd have, we would split

01:19:03.860 — 01:19:40.950 · Speaker 2

uh cars, rings, you know, whatever. And I sat there for a second. I said, honestly, nothing. I want my life because I don't care how much money or whatever is on the other side. My life is invaluable to me, and I have already spent enough time on this path, in this road. We didn't have children together, so I can only speak from having that level of freedom.

I will tell you though, like, I loved this man's family, those nieces and nephews. Still, I loved them. You know, I was a part of their life. So much so because.

01:19:40.950 — 01:19:50.510 · Speaker 1

You don't just divorce the person I mean, and you don't necessarily have to totally cleave from the rest, but it's going to change even in the best of times. It changes the situation.

01:19:50.550 — 01:20:42.640 · Speaker 2

Keeping them in my life was not going to be an option in this situation. Um, truthfully, because they they had their ways of doing things. Um, and, you know, and I knew I probably would never get to talk to those kids again as kids, maybe as adults, if, you know, whatever. So I there was a lot of reconciling with that and that probably kept me longer.

So I can certainly empathize if someone has kids. Uh, you know, the complexity that adds. But I'll tell you. No amount of money or hurt or to say, well, you're not going to get everything. When I look at what my life is worth. No amount of money is worth that. I want to be free. Mm. I want my vitality, energy. And by staying to fight for $100,000, $1 million, $10, just out of spite is devaluing my life force energy.

01:20:42.640 — 01:21:04.359 · Speaker 3

Before we go any further, let me ask you something. What if you didn't have to Google your way through divorce at 2 a.m.? What if you actually had a place with real women's talk to real answers in real time? That's the circle. It's where I go live every single week, unpack the hard stuff and help you stop spinning.

Go to my confident divorce

01:21:05.600 — 01:21:22.640 · Speaker 3

circle because confusion costs more than clarity ever will. I cannot wait to see you in there. For listeners of Not Saving it for later, you are going to be ready to take the bull by its horns and get on top of your custody situation. That's what we do around here. The thing is, you're.

01:21:22.640 — 01:23:02.850 · Speaker 1

Going to be inundated all over the internet with every single tool course, toolkit, PDF that exists because people want to make money off you in the situation. But here is what I'm going to tell you. In my experience as a divorce lawyer and as a person going through this for close to a decade. The number one tool I recommend for you is our Family Wizard.

I have used this personally in my own life for like 6 or 7 years now. I need to go back and check, but I've also recommended to hundreds of clients. And what this tool does is pack such a punch at giving you back freedom and control in your life. Because if you've been doing this long enough and you know you're a member of the club, you've been on a Friday night getting a phone call, you know, 20 phone calls in a row, 17 text messages, 7 or 8 emails all at once inundating you.

And that experience can feel very frightening, terrifying and out of control. But what our family wizard does is brings everything into one app. You can even get it ordered by the court, where that's the only place that they can communicate with you. So you've got one place to check, not, you know, the plethora of all of God's green internet.

So if you're in the middle of custody drama, you need to get this app. It is not expensive at all, and you will save potentially thousands and thousands of dollars in future court costs if you have to go back because of the streamlined way that it handles communication in the co-parenting and custody space.

So if you want to know more information, they've got some special deals for y'all. We were able to snag for not saving it for later listeners at our Family wizard.com.

01:23:04.570 — 01:23:05.930 · Speaker 1

Did you understand.

01:23:05.930 — 01:23:19.690 · Speaker 4

That at 27 years old, did you have the mental wherewithal, consciousness awareness at the time to realize that you were valuing your life.

01:23:19.690 — 01:23:24.250 · Speaker 1

And the freedom and really your own self-worth? Did you know that's what you were doing back then?

01:23:24.250 — 01:23:25.020 · Speaker 2

I did.

01:23:25.060 — 01:23:45.140 · Speaker 1

How did you have that awareness? Because I'm going to say this like I have this theory, right, that most people go through their life living a medium suck life like nothing's in crisis. Nothing's the worst. But they're not fully living either. So, like, just in this sort of beige. Me, like, it's.

01:23:45.140 — 01:23:47.900 · Speaker 2

Honestly, it's the most dangerous place to live.

01:23:47.940 — 01:24:05.140 · Speaker 1

Yeah. So. And I think that that's the overwhelming majority of people. Yeah. Um, and what in you at 27 knew that a medium suck life wasn't going to do it for you? Like what? How how did you be like that?

01:24:05.180 — 01:24:24.750 · Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, it's because I got pushed to extremes, starting really, really young. I had very big traumas starting at eight years old, physical traumas even before eight years old. A lot of things happening in my teens, sexual assaults, things that brought me to my knees more times than I could count that I was.

I knew what a ten suck. Felt like.

01:24:24.790 — 01:24:25.790 · Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:25.830 — 01:25:34.320 · Speaker 2

I knew what it felt like to stand on the edge of not wanting to be here anymore, and even making moves towards that being a reality. But I will tell you that with all the pain I had in my body, all of that, all I was praying for was a suck less life. I couldn't imagine bliss. I certainly could not imagine the life that I have now, the husband that I have now, the business we have together now.

Because I was just trying to get it to suck less like where some people are right now, is all I was praying for. Yeah, was a medium suck, you know? And so at that stage, I was so tired of a ten suck that I was like, I'm not going to spend another day at a ten suck because this sucks, okay? And it, you know, added 27 years.

A good chunk of them freaking sucked. And I will tell you, that decision to step out. I started the first thing I got was a program by Tony Robbins called Love and passion that my brother had. He had like the tapes for in the digital downloads or whatever it was then. And he's like, I have this program. I listen to it not short of 20 times in full.

I took notes.

01:25:34.440 — 01:25:35.160 · Speaker 1

God bless Tony.

01:25:35.160 — 01:25:35.520 · Speaker 2

Robbins.

01:25:36.040 — 01:26:21.800 · Speaker 1

For real. Yeah, there's that thing. Right? So, like, maybe what I'm hearing you say, right? What, what? It's just like, coming through for me hard is when the student is ready, the teacher appears. Yeah. And they they show up for me. It was the power of now that Cataldi book, right? It was like. Wait, what?

What is this, like, Tony Robbins? Wait, what are you. There's something in us, right? Um. There's a smart man. I know that you know. Well, who says that we're born knowing everything there is to know, right? And it's a remembering. We're talking about her husband. Um. And this. It's like I already knew it.

But then Eckhart put it into words, right? And that Tony put into words what you knew. So like, you knew you had contrast, right? So you knew how shitty it could be?

01:26:21.840 — 01:26:22.240 · Speaker 2

Yes.

01:26:22.280 — 01:26:41.760 · Speaker 1

Which gave you this appreciation for. Yeah. Even at least medium. And this idea of, like, I've come from that shit. I made it through that. That didn't kill me. So I'm going to keep going. Yes. Then this teacher appeared. Was there anything else that gave you the equipment to make that choice then that you can think of?

01:26:41.800 — 01:28:25.300 · Speaker 2

Like you said, I just started looking for all the signs, whether you call it, you know, praying, meditating, whatever you call it. I just said, I'm here, I'm listening, and I'm done. I am done settling. I'm done. Like I did it my parents way. I did it society's way. And no one can determine for me what what is for me.

And I learned to take radical self-responsibility. That program taught me how I was contributing to the situation. It wasn't just blame. We hold on to something and we have that level of resentment. We're usually also not taking any accountability within it. And so there's all that blame. It was their fault.

so I need to get back at them. But the reason I couldn't blame him is because I started to see my own responsibility in the situation. How am I wounding fear of abandonment, being judged as a as a teen and a young person and not wanting to put that on him, giving him space to evolve and grow. Going to church with him because it was important to him, even though it didn't resonate for me.

And as I started to take self-responsibility and not just forgiveness, like, oh, I forgive someone, but to actually free myself from blaming someone and seeing the wounds in them. As I started to learn mine. And then I got introduced to psychedelics for healing in therapeutic, facilitated ways. There's lots of documentaries and things on that now, but I had very experienced people around me.

I had people to lean on. I the thing is, I opened my mouth to say something. Hannah, I didn't sit and try to figure it out on my own, or be ashamed that my marriage didn't work out or whatever. I packed up my life. My divorce took three months from when it was filed. He actually ended up being the one to file.

01:28:26.540 — 01:29:40.310 · Speaker 2

I left with a thousand. We settled where I was taking $1,000. A Dyson vacuum, the 720 I TV. I bought him because it wasn't really good enough for him and two dogs and my personal items, and that's what we agreed on. He kept the the agreement was you get to keep everything, but you take the debt too. That's the agreement.

But you can have it all. The house, the cars, do what you want. And I have never felt that rich in my entire life. Then deciding that that is all I needed was the $1,000 that was so I could go get a new car and have the first car payment, and I would figure out the rest. I packed up my car. I packed up two of the dogs because the thing is, he is a good person.

He's a kind person. He is a nice person, but he is not my person. And we did not bring out nice things in each other. And so as I packed up my life, I moved to Austin, Texas a month later. And that's where we are now. And I said, I don't know what lies next to me, but I saw the breadcrumbs. I had come to visit Austin once.

I loved it, I felt good here. I said, I'm just gonna go there and see what happens. So I saw the freedom that all of that was bringing me, that now the whole I could go do anything

01:29:41.830 — 01:29:46.710 · Speaker 2

like, because if I have to figure it all out, then I might as well figure it all out where I want to be.

01:29:47.070 — 01:30:13.390 · Speaker 1

Yeah. And I think, you know, it's it's interesting hearing you talk, because I'm also hearing myself think thoughts that people say out loud to me when I talk about what I'm doing, because what what you did is very brave, and I know you to be a bold person and a brave person. Right. And I'm made of that kind of stuff, right?

I'm naturally born. I'm a Leo. I have that energy. I was born bold and born brave.

01:30:14.630 — 01:31:17.440 · Speaker 1

So can you think? And I'm always just such a practical person because, like, I'm just feeling the heart of someone listening to this who is in the middle of it. Like, that sounds great for you. You seem like really ballsy and just to do that. But she feels scared, like she is, you know, and a lot of people are going to have, you know, a kid or two in tow.

Right. And I know that that wasn't your experience at the time, but, you know, having those sort of responsibilities and, and to that person maybe who's listening, who feels afraid, um, afraid because maybe, maybe they haven't been all the way to level ten suck. Right? Maybe divorce is level ten suck for them, right?

But there's something going on that's making them think they've got to go. So, like, do you have any any practical steps or things that that woman can do who's feeling afraid and maybe like, look, maybe she doesn't have any kind of much of a network? Yeah, right. Like, where does she go or where does she turn?

Turn If she doesn't, you know, come with courage in spades. What is her.

01:31:17.440 — 01:31:23.680 · Speaker 2

Way? It's knowing that every person has their own ten of bravery.

01:31:24.800 — 01:32:41.650 · Speaker 2

For some women, they got married and that was their first time living in the house. They've never lived on their own, paid the bills, managed other parts of living on your own. Right. So your ten of bravery might be going to get an apartment to just even take a break and take some space for a minute. Right. It's that it doesn't.

It's not an all or nothing all the time either. It might be complicated. It might have all these moving parts. So step one is you have to start to track some things. And I'll tell you, your body doesn't lie to you. Hmm. So you might start to notice your chest is getting tighter when you go to sleep at night. You wake up like having a panic attack from your sleep.

You're noticing that you can't go to the bathroom or you're going so much. These are all signs of duress in the body. you don't feel safe. And so it's looking at like a whole element. You can't eat it all at one time. So what's the first bite? The first bite might be what do I need to know? Or what support could I find right now?

Maybe it's as simple as a book. Maybe it's finally telling one person what's really going on and it's not. Everyone is going to pack up and move like I did. Like I said, because I've done it so much, it's scary, but I know what's on the other side because I've done it so many times.

01:32:41.690 — 01:32:44.050 · Speaker 1

Yeah, you've done you had done the start over before.

01:32:44.090 — 01:32:44.730 · Speaker 2

Quite a few.

01:32:44.730 — 01:32:58.210 · Speaker 1

Times. It was very and that's the thing I think people listening like Cole at that point. Right. And this is true. You know, that's why second marriages and stuff fail at a higher rate. It's because you've already known what the thing is. And getting through that.

01:32:58.250 — 01:32:58.770 · Speaker 2

Correct.

01:32:59.010 — 01:33:26.260 · Speaker 1

Is less scary to your brain because it wants what's comfortable. Okay. So um, having done that, that made it easier. So so that way if you're making yourself wrong because you're not just like born brave Cole got brave, too, by surviving a bunch of hard things. Right? And. But so she's there, and she's she's maybe, maybe pulled out a note on her phone and she starts tracking the way she's feeling in her body, maybe tracking his behaviors that he keeps coming back in and whitewashing a little bit later.

01:33:26.300 — 01:34:24.179 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Some of it is that you have to start to kind of gather the evidence for yourself to see how bad it's getting, because if you start to dissociate from it, if you notice you're watching more TV, if you notice that, you know, you don't really remember what you did yesterday, those could be signs that it's almost like you're you're afraid to know what you know.

You're afraid to see all the signs because what that's going to mean for you and for your kids. But if you don't get honest here, it's never going to change. And it's probably only going to increase. And when it comes to if the divorce ends up being the highest of a suck and you end up going through that, here's the beautiful thing.

When you've when you've been experiencing that beige middle point, when you have something more extreme happen and it doesn't have to be a divorce. It's going to happen in some way. The loss of a parent, of a child, of, you know, heaven forbid, something like that. It's like the Suk digs out a well, and in that well is how deep that Suk goes, is how deep the joy can go on the other side.

01:34:24.580 — 01:34:29.379 · Speaker 1

That just, like, makes me. I've heard that lesson recently. I don't

01:34:30.820 — 01:34:32.820 · Speaker 1

think it's, um,

01:34:33.940 — 01:34:37.340 · Speaker 1

easy to digest that. That's true.

01:34:37.379 — 01:34:37.700 · Speaker 2

No.

01:34:37.740 — 01:35:22.750 · Speaker 1

Okay. It doesn't, it doesn't. To me, people say that. And I'm learning that in on my own personal growth journey. And it's one of those it's like I'm a seven Enneagram. I mean, my personality is like up and positive and sees the best in everything and super optimistic and etc. I mean, I'm not unrealistic, but I just generally speaking, naturally, I don't think of unpleasant things.

Yeah, I used to brag that I didn't at the end of my divorce, sit at home and cry. Not even one day. Yeah, like it was a badge of honor. Yeah. So that that depth of grief creating a well, that joy can feel. I just, I think I just want to stop for a second. Can you say that in a way? Can you explain why that is? And can you explain to us?

01:35:23.910 — 01:35:37.110 · Speaker 1

Because some people have never going to have heard that before. They're never going to have I mean, like, what are you talking about? If I feel bad, then I'm not feeling joyful. Like, why do people say that? And why do you know that it's true? And why should they accept that it's true now instead of later?

01:35:37.150 — 01:36:18.680 · Speaker 2

Here's the thing. You don't ever have to accept anything. Right? I'm sharing my perspective. You're sharing yours. Everyone has their own. But what if it's true? What if. And here's where I knew it for myself. I was talking to that retreat that I went to to decide if I was going to be in the marriage. It was a it was men and women, and I there was a man there that was sitting there, and he was getting teary eyed.

And he looks at me and he goes, have you ever just loved someone so much and missed them so much? You cried. He was talking about his wife and his daughter. And for me, I almost felt more broken because I couldn't relate to that. I was just, you know, he's like, you know, just so happy and blissful that you cried.

And I was like.

01:36:19.240 — 01:36:20.320 · Speaker 1

No, no, no.

01:36:20.320 — 01:36:57.360 · Speaker 2

So thank you now for giving me something else on the list of what's wrong bad, broken too much or not enough about me, because that's what shame is. And I didn't have any problems feeling uncomfortable. I got too comfortable being uncomfortable. And just like for me, I wasn't afraid of feeling uncomfortable.

The scariest thing for me, Hannah, was learning how to actually receive love unconditionally from my current husband. That was much harder than my divorce, because when you realize you don't have anyone to blame when things aren't working and you see that it's actually you, because they take responsibility and they take ownership,

01:36:58.440 — 01:37:09.050 · Speaker 2

going to the depths of that suck was building the muscles that I could actually hold the discomfort of realizing that it's a me issue sometimes.

01:37:09.090 — 01:37:11.410 · Speaker 1

That's what was an annoying thing, too.

01:37:11.450 — 01:37:28.890 · Speaker 2

It's the worst at first to to raise your voice at someone that's staying calm because you've been conditioned into defensiveness. You've had people point the finger at you, and for someone to look at you and say, look, baby, your anger is welcome. But I will not sit here if you directed at me.

01:37:30.450 — 01:37:30.930 · Speaker 1

Yeah.

01:37:30.930 — 01:39:18.500 · Speaker 2

And for them to stay calm and collected. Okay. Like if you don't learn how to sit in those uncomfortable feelings. If you don't like. I could be in the discomfort. And you said I didn't need to. Right. Those are both adaptations of childhood experiences. Both hyper independence is a trauma response. And when I say trauma, I'm not talking about like, events.

It's what happens in someone's body after an event. It could have been the time that you got second place, and your father looked at you and said, so why didn't you get first? What happened? What can happen within a little body is that if I'm not first, I'm last. It wasn't good enough. I didn't get the love I deserved or I wanted.

So if someone's in a home where. Sitting in those uncomfortable emotions is not supported. It's not valued. It's inconvenient. Then it can cause someone to go, oh, to be a good human, I need to be positive and look at the bright side, especially in more conservative environments. I heard things like, you should be grateful for what you have.

Look at this beautiful house. You don't go hungry. Look at these children in Africa that are starving. What that taught me was that my bad feelings are inappropriate, or I don't deserve to have them, because I came from a privileged life. And so no matter what got us to where we are, if you're not getting the results you want in your life, it's time to pause and pull back.

Survey the property. Look at what's going on. And if you don't, if you don't allow yourself to feel the grief. And sometimes you have to go learn how to and that's okay. So it's one of those things if you're not getting the results that you want, if you don't look at the common denominator in your life, it's you.

01:39:19.740 — 01:39:26.660 · Speaker 2

So if you don't take some responsibility, if you don't have the conversations. What finally got me to leave was the fear of staying.

01:39:27.780 — 01:39:34.140 · Speaker 2

What finally got me to leave was that how many more years am I going to watch what's happening to my kids unfold?

01:39:34.340 — 01:39:36.020 · Speaker 1

Well, and do you think coal,

01:39:37.340 — 01:41:06.880 · Speaker 1

you know, making and being. And I know what you're talking about. Getting comfortable with sitting with the prickly parts. And I think certainly when I was in the middle of getting divorced, I was not I did not know that lesson. I probably didn't start learning that lesson until four or 5 or 6 years after my divorce.

Um, you know, in circling back just a little bit about the big. Well, uh, the digging, the big. Well. Right. And like, what city? Because if I would have been listening to this ten years ago, I'd be like, I'm not going to sit around and think about things that suck. Like, I'm not going to sit and, you know, do that.

But I've heard it said, right, our ability to like in our in our nervous system, what I'm talking about is that that our emotions, our minds, like that part of us that feels either stable or unstable inside to sit and spend the time in that difficulty and in that grief. Why do you think it is? And like, if I would have heard somebody tell me to do it, I'd be like, I'm not doing that.

And I've now learned many years later that people say doing so is the key to joy. And if you don't, you don't have it. So like, why are those two things related as sort of an explanation slash reasoning, slash incentive to the person who's like, I don't want to sit in it either. And I'm like, I don't want to do that.

But I think Cole's trying to tell us that there's something to there's a reward for doing it.

01:41:07.360 — 01:42:19.520 · Speaker 2

If you look at other relationships that you want to have, ask them how they did it. And if you keep hearing similar things, you choosing to not do it is you choosing to stay where you are. When I was 50 pounds overweight, when I couldn't sleep, when I had fibromyalgia, when I had migraines, I didn't believe pain free was possible.

Some people may not believe that kind of relationship is possible. So I get it. But if you're listening right now and you think it is possible, we talked about the breadcrumbs. We talked about those little signs and things, and I don't think it's any mistake. Someone's listening right now. I don't think that you're catching this by coincidence.

So follow the breadcrumbs. Look at the people that have done it. Find retreats. Find people that you can trust and lean on. Find community. Sometimes it's easier to talk to a stranger about what's going on, because they're not going to judge the person. They don't have any gain. You know, they don't have anything wrapped up in it.

So sometimes that means finding a coach. Sometimes that means joining a relationship container or

01:42:20.640 — 01:42:41.960 · Speaker 2

something like that. Because I'll tell you when I started to find people like me, not that would wallow in the pity. Not that would get into that. Yeah. Me too. It sucks. But the people that were like, I know there's better out there. I've seen glimpses. I can feel it. I just don't see it yet. It's like seeing a mirage.

You have these moments.

01:42:41.960 — 01:43:20.650 · Speaker 1

And that's what faith is, right? It's all you know. We think about faith. We, a lot of us automatically get some hackles up, right? Like it's about religion or it's about Jesus or Buddha or whatever it is that you think, But really, what faith is talking about is this belief in something you can't yet see.

Uh, I don't know. We all have faith in outer space. We haven't been up there. You know, um, we've we've seen pictures of it, and we've heard other people went up there. And I think that that's sort of what maybe you're talking to them about. Like, first of all, tracking what I'm hearing is they're thinking about this and they're in that discernment phase of whether to stay or whether to go.

01:43:20.690 — 01:43:24.370 · Speaker 2

Well, you don't know how that how long it's been bad for until you track it.

01:43:24.370 — 01:44:26.860 · Speaker 1

Right? So they're doing that tracking and they're, they're tracking their own bodies and how they're feeling. They're tracking perhaps this other person's behaviors. They're also then following the breadcrumbs and the signs, the things where the universe is screaming at them. Um, it's just it's just a little.

Sometimes it's screaming. Sometimes it's a small, small whisper. Right? You keep seeing that same book. You keep hearing Oprah's quote, the same quote on Instagram that makes you know instantly you're not living the life that you're called, that you're not living, that life that you're called to. And ultimately, any person who gets divorced, I think, is having some faith.

They're believing that whatever is out there is better than whatever's in going on in here, inside of the marriage. And that's that's the question. So anybody listening who thinks you're ever going to know 100% for sure, you're ever you know, you may not be born decisive and bold and courageous. Like Cole and I, both are made that way.

Um, it may take you more time.

01:44:26.900 — 01:44:28.580 · Speaker 2

Well, life made us that way. Right.

01:44:28.620 — 01:44:53.709 · Speaker 1

Well, ten for, um. And it is, uh, going to require from you more than likely, in case you're in that spot. A degree of faith, a degree of belief in something that you can't yet see. And like I say, all the time, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. So if you're in that moment and you're ready to say like, okay, I don't feel

01:44:54.910 — 01:45:09.510 · Speaker 1

Super Bowl, then I'm not going to move across the country and pack up all my shit tomorrow. Kind of a thing. But I've been sensing this. I've been having these feelings. You know, maybe this is the moment that you can take that step forward in faith and make some of those decisions.

01:45:09.550 — 01:45:10.590 · Speaker 2

Become that person.

01:45:10.830 — 01:45:28.190 · Speaker 1

And become that person. And I believe that when you know, you make a decision, the universe, you know, conspires to help bring it into reality. So really, you're one decision away from a completely different life. So maybe while you're listening to this, you can think of that one decision. Can you start tracking

01:45:29.350 — 01:45:33.910 · Speaker 1

how you feel, what he's up to? Can you track when you feel good and when you don't? Can you?

01:45:33.950 — 01:45:36.630 · Speaker 2

What is the line? Have you even defined what the line is.

01:45:36.630 — 01:46:31.870 · Speaker 1

Mhm mhm. And um when you make that decision to continue to pursue it what you need will find you. I know that like what I always felt like there was so much I didn't know back then, right? I didn't have access, like all the stuff I have now. Same. I had no idea there were people like Colin Talwandi. I did not know about consciousness.

I did not know about everything that I've now come to know a lot about. But I got exactly what I needed along the journey. One little breadcrumb at a time. So for anybody else listening, I'm sure that that's going to be the case for you now. Okay, cool. For all our guests, we ask the same several questions just to get a little bit of insight into you.

So the name of the show is not saving it for later, right? When you hear that phrase, is there anything comes up for you? Is there anything that you save for later? Or do you have a philosophy or a reaction to it at all?

01:46:31.870 — 01:46:36.709 · Speaker 2

When I think of not saving it for later, it's I lost people so young

01:46:37.790 — 01:47:06.720 · Speaker 2

that if you save it for later, sometimes later never comes. You know, I lost someone that I loved deeply, and he was in his 30s, dying of cancer. So I was like, what are you waiting for? We only have this life right now. So that's why for me, these decisions, I don't want to put it off. I don't want to save it for later.

I don't want to save the nice dress. I don't want to save the nice boots. I don't want to save the the nice jewelry or the ring or the relationships and the love.

01:47:07.080 — 01:47:37.720 · Speaker 1

Yeah. It's interesting to talk with different people. Uh, my one of the guests was like, wait a minute. Some people say they don't save things for later. Like, how did they get like that? How did they be like that? So you're definitely going to be in that camp. Um, okay. What about is there anything right now that's shaking you like that?

There's a book, a song, um, a tool, a TV show that you're watching. Anything that our listeners might want to dig into a little bit deeper, this sort of shaking your way of thinking. Anything going on like that?

01:47:37.840 — 01:47:42.600 · Speaker 2

I feel like there always is. You know, it's like I have this thirst for knowledge.

01:47:44.520 — 01:48:01.650 · Speaker 2

I will tell you, as much as I would love to just hand someone a book or something amazing, but it's my husband shakes me. He's brilliant. He's articulate. He's kind. He's the kind of person I want to be. Um, so he shakes me every day.

01:48:01.650 — 01:48:08.610 · Speaker 1

And listeners are lucky because we have a whole episode with tall, witty that we're going to get to listen to there. He's going to be shaking you, too.

01:48:08.810 — 01:48:10.170 · Speaker 2

He's he shakes everyone.

01:48:10.210 — 01:48:24.530 · Speaker 1

Yeah, that's his way. Uh, okay. What about a dominant thought? So my theories for a while has been it's like we our brains sort of noodle on one main thing at a time. Tell you that there's some new main thing or whatever. Have you been having a dominant thought lately?

01:48:24.570 — 01:48:35.130 · Speaker 2

Right now it's. I'll figure it out. We're planning to move to Spain in a few months here. There's a lot of semantics and things to do. Yeah, and we'll figure it out.

01:48:35.170 — 01:48:57.740 · Speaker 1

Yeah, we'll figure it out. And that's certainly true in life. You know, we figured out everything that's ever happened until this moment. It's like all of a sudden, we'll stop being figured out. People. That goes for everybody listening. You've made it this far. You're going to keep making it okay. And last thing, if you were going to give one piece of advice to the women of divorced land, what would that be?

01:48:57.780 — 01:49:03.699 · Speaker 2

I would say, as you continue to grow, don't say I deserve more

01:49:05.300 — 01:49:08.219 · Speaker 2

own. I desire more

01:49:09.340 — 01:49:20.860 · Speaker 2

when we say deserve. If we're not getting the outcomes we want, it's because there's some part of us that thinks we don't or we're getting what we deserve, right? It's like when when parents, if you fell and got hurt, they'd be like, well, you got what you deserved.

01:49:20.900 — 01:49:24.940 · Speaker 1

Yeah, I told you not to walk on that scary thing, right?

01:49:24.980 — 01:49:26.219 · Speaker 2

The scariest thing

01:49:27.220 — 01:50:02.140 · Speaker 2

is actually starting to own that you desire different, and that you could have it just because you desire. And most women, especially that are moms that you know, are running the family have not even considered that they could desire anything to say you deserve. Is still withholding the idea of a victim.

It's one thing to have been victimized. It's another to stay in a current state. If I am a victim and so would say I deserve better. Everyone on the planet does.

01:50:02.180 — 01:50:03.620 · Speaker 1

Yeah, it's like a pleading energy.

01:50:03.660 — 01:50:35.900 · Speaker 2

Yeah, it doesn't work. Like that's not how life works. That you deserve better. Different, more. But if you say what if I just desired it? And I love to say, what if? Sometimes we want to flip to a mantra that's like, this is what I'm doing. This is what I, you know, it's like definitive. But if you've never paused for a second, let yourself this week just carry the thought.

What if I desire it?

01:50:35.980 — 01:51:16.989 · Speaker 1

You know, I have said the words out loud. Literally. I hate to desire something. Man, if I could never desire again. Um, I'm working through that and have. I think I'm coming out on the other side, but I think, ooh, to a woman who's been used to making do. Doing the best. Being grateful for what they have. Not wanting to rock the boat.

Be a good person. Whatever. Desire is step way, way, way down. And we I think depending on our conditioning and culturally and all the things grow up to believe and feel that our desire is

01:51:18.150 — 01:51:24.190 · Speaker 1

ugly, wrong, sinful, whatever that is. That to want for a woman to want,

01:51:25.390 — 01:51:26.790 · Speaker 1

it makes people uncomfortable.

01:51:26.830 — 01:51:49.480 · Speaker 2

Oh yeah, that's why you start small in your daily life instead of just picking up your water bottle. I desire some water and just start to make it more playful so it's not so confronting of like, oh well, I desired a relationship that looks like this. Like, of course it's going to seem out of reach. It's so big.

Start small, be playful, be like, I desire some water.

01:51:49.480 — 01:51:52.120 · Speaker 1

I desire a cough drop. Totally.

01:51:52.800 — 01:51:57.520 · Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, I'm at the tail end of a cold. So we're we're doing our best. We're making.

01:51:57.520 — 01:52:13.560 · Speaker 1

It. We're making it. Well, Cole, thank you so much for being with me. I know after you haven't been feeling good and sharing your amazing wisdom with us as women are thinking and right in that moment, trying to figure out how to make such a big and difficult decision. And thank you for sharing your heart.

01:52:13.600 — 01:52:40.170 · Speaker 2

It's life changing and like you said, it can be in all of the best ways. But whether you choose to let it make you better or better, if you choose the path of better or different or energized, you're going to walk one path or the other. And if you're going to put in the manpower, the woman power to put in those steps down either path, one is Sure feels better.

01:52:40.210 — 01:53:16.690 · Speaker 1

Yeah, there was a Rumi quote as far as like, if I was going to answer, what's shakin me? You can do it like it's a battle or a dance. And I was having that same energy of like a week. It was really difficult. Like it could be really difficult. There's a lot, a lot of things to get done where every day you wake up and you're like, is it not Saturday yet?

And it's like, it's Tuesday. Um, and I was having this trudge get through it energy. It's like, you know, I'm going to be doing it anyway. What if I just decided to have some fun? Yeah. What if I just decided to have a good time? And that's, I think, what really was talking about doing it in a way, that's a dance.

01:53:16.690 — 01:53:46.890 · Speaker 2

That part that you just said when taught. And I in my current relationship, my husband's name is Tom, my only planned marriage from here on out. The thing that changed everything for us, we went through bankruptcy, girl. We went through all this stuff where you are. If you can find the fun in the suck, that's what builds the base for the bliss.

So whether that means it's one of those days. But you'll put on your favorite song, your favorite 90s hip hop song. Get a little ratchet for a minute. Sing I like your.

01:53:46.970 — 01:53:53.530 · Speaker 1

I like the chicks. Like, where's your trouble? And a good old 90s like country song. There you go. That's what gets.

01:53:53.530 — 01:54:51.660 · Speaker 2

Me. But that's the thing. When you will allow yourself to have even moments of pleasure. You are choosing to change the way that you approach everything. And I'll tell you, when you start to create more of that in your life, it attracts more of that. Yeah, more people like that because again, you're the common denominator.

And so it's not about faking it. It's about how do you start to infuse a little bit more play a little bit more fun? Because Todd and I said when we were, when we filed bankruptcy, when our business was falling apart and we went from living in a this big, beautiful house in Marina del Rey to an Airbnb in Inglewood, California, trying to figure things out.

That's what led us back to Austin. We said, if we can find the fun here, we'll find it anywhere. It won't matter if we're in, you know, a nice luxury building like we are now in downtown Austin or in that bunk bed in Inglewood, California. We know how to find the pleasure and the play.

01:54:51.700 — 01:54:52.140 · Speaker 1

Well, and.

01:54:52.140 — 01:54:52.380 · Speaker 2

That's.

01:54:52.380 — 01:55:27.860 · Speaker 1

Fine. I think for the women of divorced land, you know, if you need something to inspire you to have a little bit of faith, um, and to something to strive for, something to reach for. I think that, you know, for both of us on the other side of really hard circumstances of going through divorce, of making a decision to claim an entirely new life with some time and some healing and all.

We did the work. Uh, there can be really great relationships on the other side, and maybe that's what we want or it's not what they want. But it does get better. Yeah, it gets better. So thank you.

01:55:28.260 — 01:55:29.580 · Speaker 2

My pleasure. Thanks for.

01:55:29.580 — 01:55:30.220 · Speaker 1

Having me.