DREW FINAL.txt

English (US)

01:00:00.520 — 01:01:53.790 · Speaker 1

Let's be honest. Most of us were taught to wait our turn to tone it down to save it for later. Later, when the kids are grown. Later when the timing is right. Later when you finally stop caring what they think. Well, I'm done waiting. I'm Hannah Henry Bell, Texas divorce lawyer, mom and woman who rebuilt her life from the wreckage.

This is not saving it for later. The podcast guiding women through divorce and beyond. The place where we stop whispering about what's hard and start talking about what's real. Marriage. Divorce. Money. Motherhood. Faith. Sex. Power. No filters, no fake empowerment BS, just straight talk and practical truth for women who are done pretending that everything's fine because your next chapter isn't waiting on permission, and neither are we.

All right, everybody, I am so excited for my guest today. His name is Drew Bell. I'm here. I'm sure even if you're listening, you can hear the smile that comes across my face when I'm talking about him. And it is so exciting to have drew here. So a little bit about drew. You're hearing me talk about him all season.

Um, but he is in addition to being a darling husband and a wonderful father, he is a lawyer by day. And I always say he does big, fancy cases where he's in, you know, in trial where there's lots of zeros involved for companies kind of sometimes bet the company big old case kind of stuff as like his day job I would say in his like side hustle job, which makes no money.

He is a wine travel connoisseur slash expert planner. Is that is that fair, drew?

01:01:53.990 — 01:01:56.310 · Speaker 2

Well, I'll leave that to you to judge.

01:01:56.350 — 01:02:07.620 · Speaker 1

I am the absolute worst and don't enjoy that whatsoever. But that's anyway one of Drew's very special talents that I get to benefit from, and not everybody knows all the time. So. Drew, welcome to the show.

01:02:07.660 — 01:02:09.460 · Speaker 2

Thank you. Great to be here.

01:02:09.500 — 01:03:11.360 · Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm so excited. Well, drew, it was obvious to me when we were thinking about doing the show that you were going to have to be a guest. I get the privilege of talking to you and knowing you up close in real life, all the time, and everybody else doesn't necessarily. But I think we could talk about 1000 things.

But today's episode, I want to talk to you a little bit in the role of like, investigator, really interview person about, uh, coming into a ready made family. Right? Like blending a family. But we're not all the way blended, right. Because it drew didn't have kids. So anyway, let's give a little context for that.

Like, so let's go back for those of you a little context you don't know. So, um, as a reminder, I got divorced about ten years ago. Um, I, Timeline wise had moved out in May. Divorce was final in September. I met drew that following February and we've been together ever since. I guess we could tell him how we met.

01:03:11.400 — 01:03:15.440 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Have you told that story? No I haven't. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, we can totally do that.

01:03:15.440 — 01:03:20.800 · Speaker 1

So drew always, like, tells parts. And then I have to add the the jig to the story. So. Okay. You start.

01:03:20.840 — 01:03:27.000 · Speaker 2

Okay. All right. Well, and just to be clear, you were divorced in 2014.

01:03:27.040 — 01:03:27.160 · Speaker 1

Yeah.

01:03:27.200 — 01:03:32.720 · Speaker 2

2014 2014 okay. And so we met in February of 2015.

01:03:32.760 — 01:03:33.240 · Speaker 1

Right.

01:03:33.280 — 01:03:33.680 · Speaker 2

In.

01:03:33.680 — 01:03:35.200 · Speaker 1

Oh the time I could have been a little iffy.

01:03:35.240 — 01:03:35.640 · Speaker 2

Right?

01:03:35.680 — 01:03:36.000 · Speaker 1

Okay.

01:03:36.040 — 01:03:39.320 · Speaker 2

So just, you know, CYA on that.

01:03:39.480 — 01:03:41.000 · Speaker 1

Um, such a lawyer.

01:03:41.040 — 01:04:29.110 · Speaker 2

Yeah. So they, they, they don't pay me for nothing. Um, so, um, so we met through, uh, one of our mutual friends. He was my roommate and my best friend from law school. And you knew him because he was working with you at your law firm that you were at, uh, in San Antonio at that time. Um, and I had come down to San Antonio to visit him.

Uh, and in kind of the the days leading up to that, um, he had kind of he had kind of set up this, this kind of kind of a blind date situation, but without calling it that. And he was trying to keep it. Keep it cool, I guess. Yeah. Kind of pressure.

01:04:29.150 — 01:04:38.630 · Speaker 1

On my side, I had no idea that there was any kind of a setup. All I knew was Ricardo's lawyer friend, drew from the fancy job, was coming into town. That's what I.

01:04:38.630 — 01:04:55.060 · Speaker 2

Knew. Yeah. And I was living in Washington, D.C., so, um, so he was just like, oh, well, we can go out to dinner and you should meet my friend Hannah and whatever. And she's gonna bring a friend, too. And he didn't make it sound like a date situation, but it kind of totally was okay.

01:04:55.100 — 01:04:57.660 · Speaker 1

And we sure know that now.

01:04:57.700 — 01:05:18.220 · Speaker 2

Yeah, we know that now. We know that now. So. Um, and he had sent me this, uh, he had he's like, oh, and here's a, here's a picture of her and this and that. And and it was I mean, obviously you looked beautiful in the picture. It was perhaps not the most beautiful picture I've ever seen.

01:05:18.220 — 01:05:32.820 · Speaker 1

I'm rolling my eyes. If you can't, you cannot. If you're not watching this and you're listening because drew has much like he's changed his tune as he's become a married man of aged years. But he used to talk about how it was the worst picture that's ever been taken of me.

01:05:33.060 — 01:05:56.450 · Speaker 2

But it was still a good picture in the in the grand scheme of things, just not the best picture that you've ever taken, just to be clear about that. Uh, um, so anyway, so, uh, we go, I go down and we're in the office parking lot, the parking garage, and going to meet Hanna. Ricardo and I are going to go in and meet Hanna.

01:05:56.450 — 01:06:20.290 · Speaker 1

Well, and I have to interject this part for the ladies because y'all can know how much I didn't really realize a date situation was happening because I had my hair in a ponytail and not like a cute ponytail. You know, if you're going out on a date with some somebody, you think this was happening, you you were going to fix your hair, you're going to curl your hair is going to be ready to go.

And mine was in. I know I did wear a good dress. I remember that I liked that dress for a long time. The one I had like leather in the middle, like.

01:06:20.770 — 01:06:22.290 · Speaker 2

Anyway, it's green, right?

01:06:22.330 — 01:06:24.570 · Speaker 1

Oh, navy blue. I wish I.

01:06:24.850 — 01:06:25.010 · Speaker 2

Was.

01:06:25.010 — 01:06:33.690 · Speaker 1

Close. Yeah, close. Drew is also colorblind. So what do you know? Um. And anyway, so my hair was in a ponytail, so I was not thinking that this was a date situation.

01:06:33.770 — 01:07:04.320 · Speaker 2

Yeah, so. But we're in the parking lot in the sort of, you know, not ideal lighting conditions of the parking lot, parking garage. And Hannah walks out and I'm I'm just, like, stunned. Um, I just, I it was totally surpassed my expectations based on the picture that I've been given. And I thought, you know, Ricardo's really been he's been holding out on me.

He did not give me an accurate representation. So I was immediately, immediately taken in.

01:07:04.360 — 01:07:06.440 · Speaker 1

And I saw drew and I go, oh,

01:07:07.480 — 01:07:30.920 · Speaker 1

whoa, oh, oh, I'm in trouble. Whatever. I saw drew, I remember thinking that. And then I joke because and this is very indicative if you think about it, drew, like how we are in real life now, like the basis of mine injuries relationship is I give him a real hard time and he likes it. I mean, that's kind of most of the way, which I don't even think about as being abnormal.

Um, except sometimes we'll be around people.

01:07:30.920 — 01:07:31.800 · Speaker 2

I mean, it's not abnormal.

01:07:31.840 — 01:08:21.500 · Speaker 1

I don't know, but people look at me like I'm being mean to drew. I'm like, Billy, it's like that meme that there's this, like, guy getting yelled at by this Hispanic girl, and she's all up in his face or whatever, and he's looking at the camera and he's like, and it's like, if this has happened to me, you leave me alone because I'm exactly where I want to be.

That's kind of the way. So anyway, so I get in the car and, um, Ricky Ricardo had a little two seater convert. He was always having some kind of girl car, some two seater convertible car. And so drew was sitting in the front seat passenger seat with Ricardo, and then he was drew was trying to get in the back seat, and I was like, and he.

Drew was so much taller than me. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, I'll climb in the back. He was like, oh, well, what would my mom say if she saw me? And I'm like, your mama ain't here. And he okay. And I, I laugh because from that moment forward, that was it, I'm pretty sure.

01:08:21.540 — 01:08:26.900 · Speaker 2

Yeah. No it was and, you know, just hit it off from there and.

01:08:27.780 — 01:08:36.620 · Speaker 1

Um, I think well, I think drew what's important. Okay. So that's the like meet cute story. Yeah. Okay. Oh well, we should probably tell. It's kind of funny because.

01:08:38.620 — 01:08:41.419 · Speaker 2

There's I'm not really sure which part you're about to tell, so.

01:08:41.539 — 01:10:23.160 · Speaker 1

Well, I'm about to laugh because. So we go to dinner and then, um, it was this great dinner. And I remember drew, just like now that I know drew, it's so funny. Drew was just droning on and on about wine and all this stuff the way, like, especially young Drew Bell used to do, just like he drew. Bless him. And I love you so much.

He loves to tell people stuff he knows, like he, the man, loves nothing better than to tell you something he knows about, okay? And he knows about wine things. And I remember just sitting there just I mean, little girl from van, Texas. I never had a good glass of wine in my life. And I'm just looking at him and just like, I think I'm going to let this fancy man fall in love with me, I do, I do think so.

I think that's going to work out, uh, anyway. And, um, we ended up we go through the night. I don't even remember all of it. We end up at that one bar in San Antonio. Do you remember? I was like, what that place was called? It's two story. If you've been in San Antonio in the Pearl, you know what I'm talking about.

And we go in there and we're like, and this is very funny. Me like me before getting divorced. And me, like, kind of right after this period of time is not like a go to the bar after you go to dinner and hang out kind of person, I'm like, eh? Can we please eat dinner at six and can I be home by, you know, 930 is my perfect evening.

Um, but that Hannah post-divorce Hannah which some of y'all post-divorce, you know, there's this period where it's like, you're not. You're just kind of. Whoa, baby, here I am, world. Um, we end up at the bar, and, um, I drew at some point we're in a booth, I guess, and, like, leaned over and literally kissed me in the middle of the bar, and it just makes me laugh, because the first and only time I've ever been, um, kissed in the middle of a bar, and I ended up marrying him, so, I don't know.

I just think that part is kind of funny.

01:10:23.200 — 01:10:24.440 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Good move, I guess.

01:10:24.480 — 01:10:29.520 · Speaker 1

Yeah, well, because you were you were. You've said before, right? You were in town for this limited period of time.

01:10:29.560 — 01:10:38.920 · Speaker 2

Well that's right. I mean, the, the the clock was ticking to try to make some connection. Something happen? Um, and. Yeah. So it just kind of went for it, I guess.

01:10:38.960 — 01:10:42.720 · Speaker 1

I, you know, I think back to that, drew. And I just think about how,

01:10:43.790 — 01:11:00.550 · Speaker 1

um, incredible it was that you entered that situation. And, like, one of the things I think that I've now knowing you since 2014. So for, um, 11 years going on, um,

01:11:01.630 — 01:11:18.790 · Speaker 1

that I find so incredible is your open mind. And so I think that's one thing for anybody listening, guys or gals, you know, it's mostly girls listening, but I'm sure there's going to be some some guys listening is that you had an open mind because, uh, I believe I'm pretty sure. Right. Ricardo told you this?

This gal's divorced, and she's got three kids.

01:11:18.830 — 01:11:19.950 · Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah. No, I knew that.

01:11:19.950 — 01:11:37.910 · Speaker 1

And you, you know, that's not usually going to be on, like, someone's, um, Bumble profile or. I mean, there wasn't Bumble wasn't even really much of a thing, at least for I wasn't on the Bumble back then. Um, to say, like, lady with three kids, would you like to come get you some? Right.

01:11:37.950 — 01:12:48.720 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Well, yeah. And, you know, obviously, like, uh, it it required more of an open mind as things went along because, you know, we kept talking after that and, um, you know, started seeing each other and doing this long distance. But that's the point where, you know, okay, is is it really going to be a thing when you know, she has these, these kids, which is totally different from my situation, where not only do I not have kids, but no one I know has any kids in DC because people don't.

Once they have kids, they move to Virginia and Maryland. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean, you know, my thought process at the time was was essentially like, you know, you don't have to you don't have to project so far in the future and make decisions based on what you think the situation might be. You know, if it feels good and right.

And, you know, let's just take it one step at a time and see what it's like, as opposed to assuming what it's like.

01:12:48.800 — 01:13:03.720 · Speaker 1

What I think that's a point that a lot of people could learn from, because I think a lot of people and there's a lot of wisdom out there that's like, get your standards and never settle and make a list of all the things you want in a person. Wood gal with three kids from somebody else been on your list of things you want?

01:13:03.760 — 01:13:34.800 · Speaker 2

Well, no, of course not. And I mean, but, you know, maybe don't be so sure of yourself, you know, um, you know, you don't you don't know, um, you can think that something is, is or is not what you want, but you may not know, actually, um, until you until you try, I guess, um, or at least, um, you know, approach things with an open mind, and it's definitely not for everybody.

It's not. It wouldn't have worked for everybody. Um, but. Yeah.

01:13:35.280 — 01:13:37.240 · Speaker 1

But things took a turn.

01:13:37.240 — 01:13:56.310 · Speaker 2

But I, I, I felt very strongly that you were for me and so I wasn't I didn't want to let my assumptions about, you know, the circumstances of your life, um, sort of deep six that before it really even began. So, um, yeah.

01:13:56.350 — 01:14:31.390 · Speaker 1

And like big plot ruiner kind of skipping to the end, and then we can fill in some stuff in the middle. I mean, ultimately that young, young drew. Right? Ten years ago, 11 years ago. Drew single, never been married. Um, really, you know, hadn't had these, like, big long term relationships that were, like, close to marriage.

You weren't in those sorts of situations, um, making this decision like, hey, yeah, I'll go, I'll go to dinner. Um, I'll keep talking to this gal. You know, on the whole, in case anybody needs the TLDR version. Was that a good decision for you?

01:14:31.430 — 01:14:34.710 · Speaker 2

It was a great decision. The best decision I know.

01:14:34.710 — 01:16:01.930 · Speaker 1

And I say that Like, can you talk a little bit in general, like zoom out about that drew then versus this? Drew now. And like some of the like broad strokes benefits of having that open mind and considering someone who had had some life that you hadn't and who'd had some, you know, what some people might call baggage.

I don't call it baggage, obviously, but like for, for, you know, also to give some people who are listening some hope, a lot of people listening to women are going to have kids and feel like. And I definitely feel like nobody I mean, and I was told by my son, no one's ever going to want you with three kids. Um, and they feel that way, like, obviously I got you and you are not like, you were obviously wonderful and amazing, and you're not the only one of your kind.

But for people listening in that big picture. So you made this, you know what some people would think was like kind of a wild decision to say, okay, I'm a this gal's down in Texas and down in San Antonio at the time. and she got these three kids and it's a oh, it's a situation, but I'm on. I'm going to see about this.

Can you tell them a bit about what benefits you've gotten as like a person, like how you've grown some of those broad strokes, things that especially maybe wouldn't have happened had you gone the more traditional route of some little blond gal and had your first baby and whatever.

01:16:01.970 — 01:16:41.120 · Speaker 2

Well, I mean, so there's a lot there. I mean, first of all, like, you know, it wasn't just it wasn't just the fact that you had kids. I mean, you lived halfway across the country, right? Yeah. I moved to Texas, um, for you, um, you know, and, um, it was able to work out with my job, which was great, but, um, you know, it was after we were dating for several months, you know, we made the decision to to move my life from Washington, where I lived for five years.

And, um, you know, where I had, you know, most of my friends and that sort of thing. Um, down to Texas. And it was kind of a,

01:16:42.840 — 01:17:51.540 · Speaker 2

um, it was kind of a belief in us, in our relationship that led me to do that. And we can talk. I think we're going to talk probably more about like, how how we integrated all of this with the kids themselves. But as far as what sort of the benefits are of dating someone with that experience, with that life experience.

I mean, there are a lot and it's probably even hard to for me to identify all of them. But, um, you get somebody who has been through a lot of different parts of life, um, that I hadn't been through, um, and can kind of teach you, um, about just, you know, kid things. I mean, when we had our own baby, Um, you know, it wasn't like we were both going in there blind, not knowing anything.

It was like I was going in there blind, not knowing anything, but, um. But it was like, okay, well, this is, you know, old hat for Hannah, so, you know, I don't have to. It's a it's a lot less stressful when your partner has already done that.

01:17:51.580 — 01:18:02.100 · Speaker 1

Yeah, I think definitely marrying a mama. You see the really gigantic benefit of that if you have another baby.

01:18:02.220 — 01:18:02.660 · Speaker 2

Yeah.

01:18:02.700 — 01:18:15.740 · Speaker 1

For sure. That's, like obvious. Like, it probably felt the most beneficial when the baby's freaking out and crying and and when you're, you know, if both of you are new, you don't know. You're like, should we go to the E.R.? And I'm like, she's going to be fine. Put that baby back down. She needs to go to sleep.

01:18:15.740 — 01:18:24.780 · Speaker 2

So that's like a very concrete thing. But, you know, there's also there's also like life perspective things, um, you know, uh,

01:18:26.740 — 01:20:45.470 · Speaker 2

so there are times when I think two single people with no kids, they get wrapped up in, um, things about themselves and their own lives and they lose perspective, I think. And that was certainly that was true for me. Um, a lot of times. But when you have kids to focus on and that which become the priority, even if they're not your kids, if they're if they're your partner's kids, um, because they're kids and they're in your life, they have to be a priority.

Um, and the way that you relate to them and treat them and stuff, that all becomes so much more important than a lot of like, little minor things. And so it gives you kind of a different perspective on what counts and what doesn't. Um, it also lets you see people, um, and how they interact with people that are like the most important to them.

And I think you learn a lot about a person and you know how, um, like, in your case, how selfless you can be. Um, when when you're willing to do so much and sacrifice so much, um, for the people you care about and get. And you know, that person that you care about could also be me, right? And so it gives a it gives a nice, um, you know, a nice preview of that.

So, um, you know, I think it's, I think it's very, very different for sure. Obviously the basic contours of a relationship are still there, there in either case. But, um, I do think that you get to see the other person in, um, a sort of more complete context, and you get to see it ahead of time, which is nice.

You don't have to get married first and have kids first before you get to see that the person in that way. Um, and I think the notion that someone who's divorced with kids is never going to be, um, you know, is never going to be desirable again, or is nonsense now more than ever? Um. That probably. Now, that may be true for some men, you know those guys.

But those guys, you know, there's a pretty good chance that they suck anyway. Um, because.

01:20:45.510 — 01:20:47.710 · Speaker 1

They're not having any open mindedness about.

01:20:47.710 — 01:20:48.390 · Speaker 2

It, right?

01:20:48.430 — 01:20:57.950 · Speaker 1

Well, it depends on their age. Okay, so I shouldn't be so harsh. Like, if they're, you know, as you get older, I guess, in particular, the likelihood that the dating pool is going to be a mama.

01:20:58.150 — 01:20:58.870 · Speaker 2

Yeah.

01:20:59.110 — 01:21:01.350 · Speaker 1

Or vice versa. A guy with kids, obviously.

01:21:01.350 — 01:21:32.220 · Speaker 2

Well, and it's fair to not want kids at all. And if you're one of those guys, then, yeah, you know, that's fine. Um, I, I get that, um, but, you know, there are a lot of men out there who will, you know, who will absolutely give it a chance, um, who, you know, won't see it even really as a major drawback. Um, and so, you know, I think I get the fear, but I think that fear is not is overblown a little bit.

01:21:32.260 — 01:21:53.979 · Speaker 1

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01:24:19.590 — 01:25:34.450 · Speaker 2

Well, yeah, I mean, so that's true. That's certainly true. I mean, part of it is being with you and you're such an empathetic person. So I, you know, yeah, maybe not, but, uh, um, and learning that from you, but it's also about, um, having to be in a situation where, um, other people's needs are, like, more important than your own, um, and need to be considered in a sort of heightened way.

Um, and nothing does that more than kids. And so, um, yeah, I mean, I certainly have learned over the years and like early on a lot that, you know, um, uh, it's when you're, when you're in a situation with kids are involved. I mean, you need, you need to sort of use your empathy muscle a little bit more to understand where they're coming from and treat them with kindness.

I mean, as a general matter, it's not that hard to be nice to kids. Um, but, you know, sometimes they can be frustrating. Sometimes they're in a difficult situation. Um, and, you know, it's not about you getting your emotional needs met by them. It's it's how to help them as much as you can. And so you just don't you just don't get that if they're not there.

01:25:34.690 — 01:26:01.010 · Speaker 1

So can you go back to remember as like it was starting right. And you were we were just dating. We were long distance. I remember for both of us, it's like something's going to have to give because neither one of us wants to be grown ups in a long distance relationship. No. Um, and so just I'm remembering, like, in the beginning when I was still finishing up law school and all of that.

Uh, did you have any sort of

01:26:02.170 — 01:26:31.800 · Speaker 1

things that you would have thought in your mind or central tenets of, like what you thought or what you wanted for your life or fears or anything that got debunked? Like for instance, I mean, I guess if you don't want to talk about this, you can tell me, but I remember you saying to me, um, you know this fear.

It was after barrister's ball. This fear that, um, you like, you know, us being together was getting, like, more and more serious that you wouldn't be the number one person in my life because I had these kids. Do you remember.

01:26:31.840 — 01:26:39.320 · Speaker 2

That? Yeah, of course I remember. And. Yeah. No, I remember exactly. And I mean, I think.

01:26:39.680 — 01:26:50.680 · Speaker 1

It's fair to think that, like, I'm not I don't I don't blame that drew for thinking that. But can you talk about like that fear that you had. How did that end up playing out. And like what would you say to him now if you could go back?

01:26:50.720 — 01:28:02.220 · Speaker 2

Well, it's just not that simple, right? I mean, that's that's sort of the message I would give. I mean, I think when at least for me, you know, growing up, you have this idea that, like, you know, you're going to have this relationship and you eventually get married and with that person, you'll just sort of be the number one person for that person for however long of time you have before you have kids.

And that's sort of like one period of your relationship where you just sort of focus primarily on each other. And then you have kids, and those kids become sort of like equal players in the whole thing, right? It's just like, not that simple. Right. Um, I mean, it's true. It's it is true that, like, when someone has kids, they they they are like the, the top priority.

But it doesn't make it does. It's there's not like a limit to the amount of love and affection that a person can give. Certainly not a person like you. And and what I found is that it's just it just became sort of a, um, I didn't I never felt like, uh, neglected or that you didn't have enough, like, love to share with me or anything like that.

And I guess that's kind of how I was imagining it before, but it's just not.

01:28:02.580 — 01:28:05.260 · Speaker 1

Like there's a love pie and like some of the pieces were gone.

01:28:05.420 — 01:28:25.690 · Speaker 2

Or like an attention pie. Um, and it really didn't it wasn't like that because it ends up being a joint project. It ends up being a group group effort And, um, you end up working together to do this thing, which is even better than the other person. Just like focusing 100% on you because you're accomplishing something together.

01:28:25.810 — 01:29:27.400 · Speaker 1

Well, and you know, what I would say to is love magnifies or multiplies, right? Love multiplies. Um, it's addition by addition. Uh, and so everybody who's who's a parent of more than one child knows this. You have one. And then you think your heart's so full you're going to burst. You couldn't possibly love another thing.

And then you have your second baby and you're like, how is it possible that I literally love them as much as the other one, right? It just doesn't run out. Um, so I think that that's the thing I would tell somebody in that thing like how, you know, if you're not going to be their top priority or whatever, now depends on if you're are you measuring minutes, if you're measuring minutes and you, you want to have a minute counter where you get the most all alone minutes with this person versus these other little creatures, get all the most alone minutes.

Well, I mean, you might come out short on that because just raising kids, there's a lot to it. Um, but I like what you said about eventually it becoming a group project. So you do get minutes, but they're just co minutes that you do together. And I think.

01:29:27.520 — 01:29:28.040 · Speaker 2

Yeah.

01:29:28.080 — 01:30:25.590 · Speaker 1

I think drew if I was you know, knew about us I would be very interested in how we did that. So like you know okay so we were dating long distance. Um it kind of became clear like, all right. It didn't it did become clear this long distance for us growing up people is not going to work. I remember saying I didn't climb out of hell by my fingertips, fingernails to miss somebody my whole life.

And Drew's job, he was able to to relocate her. And I was like, look, if you get to Austin, which is the place where his law firm had an office, like, if you'll get to Austin, I'll eventually get there one way or the other. Okay, so we sort of made that deal, and that was in August. We kind of made that decision.

And then but it wasn't coming to pass until December. And I got a little rocky in between there for a little bit. Like we were both really sick of it after, I don't know, 7 or 8 months of doing it in that October, just being like, oh yeah, October is a month for us.

01:30:25.590 — 01:30:28.270 · Speaker 2

Well, it's a long distance. It wasn't like a short distance.

01:30:28.270 — 01:30:48.150 · Speaker 1

Yeah. And there's kids and they're here every other weekend like getting back and forth. And I was we were studying for the bar and then I was starting at the big law job. I mean, it was just a lot, um, already to, to juggle. Um, and then drew moved to Austin and lived down on fifth Street across from the firehouse fire station down there.

01:30:48.190 — 01:30:49.590 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Building's not there anymore.

01:30:49.630 — 01:30:50.230 · Speaker 1

Is it not?

01:30:50.270 — 01:30:50.590 · Speaker 2

No.

01:30:50.630 — 01:30:51.510 · Speaker 1

What's there now?

01:30:51.950 — 01:30:56.070 · Speaker 2

Uh, I forget, I think they're building something there new, but they tore that building down.

01:30:56.110 — 01:31:41.780 · Speaker 1

Oh, okay. And this, like, very like bachelor pad of his dreams. Two level, one bedroom, gigantic apartment, very loft concrete situation. And I had my house down in San Antonio. Now, one very important factor for us is that the kids were not with me primarily at first, so I had the kids back then, every I was the quote unquote dad in the situation, like in Texas most I mean, most people that you meet, like somebody is going to be on what's called a standard possession or expanded standard.

We only had standard possession, so it'd be first, third and fifth weekends from Friday at six to Sunday at six, and then Tuesday nights for dinner for an hour and a half. And that's the only time I had the kids. So

01:31:42.860 — 01:32:57.400 · Speaker 1

that gave me a lot more time than people who have their kids in the reverse, or all the time. Maybe there's not another a co-parent or a dad or whatever mom in the in the picture. So I think that we have to give that context in. And that's why everything bad that's ever happened to me in my life, every single thing ends up working for good because in, in a way.

You know, I think back, like, had the kids been with me all the time and I didn't have as much space as I did, I don't know how things would have gone with us in the same way, but because I had that space, the negative of the kids not being with me, I could have sat in a room and cried for the rest of my life. We talk on the show always about being better or better, and you get to choose shows better.

Of course, at every turn that I can remember as I'm sitting here, and part of that better was to take advantage of like, leverage, right? I, I have ever since I've been doing anything on this planet, leverage whatever's at my disposal, you know, and what was at my disposal was some more time. So that gave us some freedom.

Where you were in Austin and I was in San Antonio, and we we just burned the pavement between up and down 35. Yep. Back and forth between the two. So, drew, can you talk or what?

01:32:57.440 — 01:33:29.470 · Speaker 2

Well, no, but I, I think you're right. I mean, it's like, you know, obviously that's not the circumstance you would have drawn up. No, but you know, while it didn't give you your first choice, um, you were able to, uh, you know, make the most of what it did give you, which was time. Um, and, you know, it would have been, you know, it would have been a different type of challenge.

Um, had the custody situation been different?

01:33:29.510 — 01:35:08.010 · Speaker 1

Well, and especially as contentious as mine was and as difficult as it was and has been, I think that would have added another layer that would have been a lot to now easing into. It is one thing, but like going straight into the deep end is another and like that's a point. Y'all who are listening. A lot of women sit around and cry about all the time.

Their children aren't with them, even if they're in the situation where they have them every all the time, except for these every other weekends and the whole weekend, they're sitting around almost like staring at the door, waiting on their kids to get home. And I get it like, give yourself a minute to do that if that's what you need.

And then also like it is what it is. You can do it like it's like that Rumi quote. Right? That you're like, it's marching into battle or you can do it like it's a dance. Which is it? You get to choose. You can sit and stare at the door until they walk back in. Are you going to make a life for yourself? Are you going to rediscover yourself?

And for me, that period of time was the first time I'd ever been alone as an adult because I went straight from college to immediately married, and that was the first moment. And then all these kids. So first moment of my life, I'd ever been alone as an adult, and it was rocky. It was not easy at first, but it did give us this room drew to do you know what has ended up being the best?

I didn't have my first choice when it came to the kids. Ultimately, that did turn into my first choice life. Um, but I think the reason why that was possible is because all along the way, I always chose the best available option without sitting there and crying about and staring about, staring at and regretting all the things that could have been instead.

01:35:08.050 — 01:35:26.170 · Speaker 2

Well, and also, just because you are kind of making the best of your situation doesn't mean that you are fully accepting it, right? Those are different things, right? I mean, you can be making the best of your situation while plotting to change it. Right.

01:35:26.210 — 01:35:27.290 · Speaker 1

Um, as we were.

01:35:27.330 — 01:35:58.810 · Speaker 2

Right, exactly. I mean, you know, um, you can be you can say, recognize that? Hey, this this difficult situation gives. You know, not what I would have chosen, but it does give you, uh, xyz opportunities that you wouldn't have otherwise had. Right. And at the same time, can I do something about the situation that I would like to change?

Yes. Okay. Well, then, you know, maybe let's try to do that at the same time. You can do these at the same time.

01:35:58.850 — 01:36:06.280 · Speaker 1

Right. And okay, so going back to that, you've moved up to Austin. You're in your bachelor Paradise.

01:36:06.760 — 01:36:10.360 · Speaker 2

Yeah. It was like a concrete. A real concrete jungle.

01:36:10.400 — 01:37:58.730 · Speaker 1

Yeah, it was something. Uh. You're there. We're going down on Rainy Street. We're having brunch every week or every other weekend. Um, we're going out to fancy dinners. I was like, always. Y'all almost falling asleep with a glass of red wine on Friday night at the table on drew. Um, back then. And we're watching Game of Thrones on Sunday night, and, um, that was sort of the period.

And I think that we did this part differently than a lot of people do. I think that we began our life together. At the time, we weren't even necessarily like, I'll say this. I remember talking on the phone when I lived in that little house in San Antonio and being like, look, I'm looking for my I mean, not the most.

This would not be in the dating advice books, probably, but very early on, like, look, man, I'm looking for, like, my person in life. Like, I ain't messing around. I'm not trying to date a bunch of da da da da da da. I'm just not made that way. Like, that's what I'm looking for. And I remember you being like, well, yeah, that that's what I'm looking for, too.

Like, we were both only interested in doing something long distance. And all the trouble this would be if it was like, really a thing, if not the thing. Right. So I think we were we were pursuing a forever path or not, I mean, fear. So like from the beginning, and I think people with kids are a little bit, generally speaking, going to be a little bit more like that because of the kids and like eventually introducing them.

You're not going to I mean, some people go like there's that one. Great. Um, uh, what is it your name? Ali Wong, that whole skit that, like, her comedy thing about divorced moms. So, like, you, you know, there's some divorced mom energy that you might be bringing into it at first. But, you know, once you're really talking about getting dating and stuff, we were, from the beginning looking at a is this my person situation.

01:37:58.770 — 01:38:08.330 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Well, you you I think if you, if you have kids in the picture, you have to be more selective. And if you're not like a complete jerk as a guy, you will understand that. Yeah. You know.

01:38:08.370 — 01:39:14.680 · Speaker 1

And so I think when that happens, a lot of people, I've seen it from my clients over the years, and a lot of people, you know, they live closer. So obviously they like meet each other and they live maybe around the corner or they, they, you know, they, their kids are on the same soccer team or whatever. So they know each other and they live closer by.

So the amount of time that they can spend together is pretty limitless, really. And people will pretty quickly find themselves almost living together or actually living together. And they do a lot of this really quickly, and then they mush together a family situation really quickly. The threshold for doing that for a lot of people is a lot lower, because they've already done it once.

And like our brains want what's comfortable and people who are married before it can be pretty comfortable to be married and get used to having someone at the end of every day to come home and tell about your stuff to having someone help. Maybe, you know, I don't know. Steam your shirt for you if you got a big presentation, help you know, empty the dishwasher.

You do top all the bottom situation, right? So I think it can be.

01:39:16.200 — 01:39:39.880 · Speaker 1

It's probably more the norm and a lot more tempting to just slide straight back into that sort of house situation, which we couldn't do because we lived farther apart. And then you lived in Austin. So can you talk a little bit about our approach and or at least, you know, from your perspective and I can add color to whatever I think, but I'll call him out on his BS.

Don't worry, I got you. Um, but.

01:39:42.160 — 01:40:00.590 · Speaker 1

Yes, but share a little bit about your vantage point and approach once you've been here and I'm in San Antonio and sort of when we really settled into a, routine in life. You know, a year and a half, two years in. Talk a little bit about that.

01:40:00.630 — 01:40:09.909 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Well so it was it was like you said for about the first, uh, year and a half

01:40:10.950 — 01:40:31.310 · Speaker 2

year, year and a half. Um, then I had a work assignment for a few months that made me travel a lot, um, up to Virginia. Um, and but then after I came back from that, um, uh, I moved out of that apartment.

01:40:31.350 — 01:40:40.950 · Speaker 1

No, we got engaged. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Getting Tom on screw I am we got we moved in together and got engaged before you went off to Virginia.

01:40:40.990 — 01:40:42.230 · Speaker 2

Right before. That's right.

01:40:42.270 — 01:40:42.990 · Speaker 1

Like right before.

01:40:43.030 — 01:40:45.950 · Speaker 2

Right. No, no, you're right, you're right, you're right. Right before. Right before.

01:40:45.990 — 01:41:13.580 · Speaker 1

So but I'm thinking about like, even in the early days, just when, like how we decided when you met the kids and like, your approach, like just very beginning when some I mean, I'm not necessarily calling it advice, but giving a point of view of a guy dating a gal with three kids. And you're also not, like, living in the same town and you're not, like, all of a sudden, like moving in and like, oh, hey, there's this new dude here.

01:41:13.580 — 01:41:19.500 · Speaker 2

Well, and this really even started before I moved. I mean, you know, I, I met the kids,

01:41:20.660 — 01:41:21.100 · Speaker 2

uh,

01:41:22.300 — 01:41:32.220 · Speaker 2

I think about two months after I met you, um, like, like in a real way, right. Um, and,

01:41:33.460 — 01:41:34.980 · Speaker 2

you know, I think.

01:41:36.420 — 01:41:40.340 · Speaker 1

Uh, and just, like, saying hi when we went to barristers. Is that when you met him?

01:41:40.740 — 01:42:54.230 · Speaker 2

Yeah, it was real. Well, it was the first time I met them. Maybe it was then it was really fast. But then there were, you know, other times when we started going out to dinner and, you know, lunch and that kind of thing. Um, and, you know, I think my view on it was like, obviously, uh, I gotta get it right. Because if I screw up with the kids, then this whole thing's over.

Because, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, and I can't as a responsible person keep me around. Um, if the kids hate me. Right. Like, that's not. That's not a choice. Uh, so at a minimum, they can't hate me. Um, and I don't really know what to do to make kids like me because I was never around them. Um, but it's not that hard to be nice to them.

And, you know, what are the kinds of things from there? You know, I tried to think about it from their perspective. Like, you know why? Everyone kind of knows that. Like, it can be like a scary and difficult thing for a kid with a parent who's divorced, um, to have, like the new boyfriend brought around and.

01:42:54.350 — 01:43:06.190 · Speaker 1

And by the time you were coming around, we were like, okay, we're pursuing this, right? It wasn't like a you started coming around and we were like, well, we'll see. It was like, we're really turning into a thing.

01:43:06.390 — 01:43:09.030 · Speaker 2

Yeah, well, and I think that was by design.

01:43:09.070 — 01:43:28.830 · Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm just saying that it's like didn't start right away. We were careful to be like, okay, we're really serious about this before. We're going to do that to the kids and like introduce you as boyfriend. Even the first time you met him, I think we were with Ricardo. And it was just like they happened to come to lunch where I was with several friends.

Yeah, right. And like, oh, here's Mr. Drew. They called him Mr. Drew.

01:43:28.870 — 01:43:29.110 · Speaker 2

Mr..

01:43:29.710 — 01:43:29.990 · Speaker 1

Mr..

01:43:29.990 — 01:45:17.210 · Speaker 2

Drew yeah, but so like I mean, look, why is that why is that such a difficult thing for kids? Well, it's not that hard to figure out, right? I mean, you have, um, you have a number of reasons. I mean, first of all, to the extent that they harbor any hopes and dreams that their parents are going to get back together, that pretty much dashes that right?

Um. You know, so. And it's your fault as the the boyfriend. You're the agent of that, um, you know, you represent someone who is potentially invading their home, right? A new, you know, possibly permanent element in their home that's going to change the entire dynamic of, uh, of how they operate in their house.

You are siphoning attention from their parent, um, you know, uh, away potentially. Right. At least there's the fear of that. Um, and then how are they supposed to relate to you? I mean, are you going to be mean to them, or are you going to be some kind of, like, harsh disciplinarian? Are you going to, you know, add a bunch of new rules?

Uh, what do they have to do to stay on your good side, etc., etc.? And so, I mean, you know, I think the to the extent if you're coming into a situation like this that you can, um, alleviate those fears and not be scary in those specific ways. I think that's the best way to do it, right? Don't pretend. This was like number one, right?

Like, don't pretend you're there, dad. Right. Right. Now that I don't know, I don't know a lot about this parenting stuff. Um, but but that seems to me to be pretty obvious, and I don't really understand how people screw that one up.

01:45:17.250 — 01:45:26.610 · Speaker 1

They do. It's like they do. Hey, this new guys here, you just met him. He's dad now, and, like, we're gonna call him dad. And I'm like, uh, I don't even know your middle name.

01:45:26.650 — 01:45:43.690 · Speaker 2

Yeah, don't make the kids call you dad. I mean, you know, certainly not at first. I mean, you know, there are some circumstances where that can work out, you know, whatever. But, like, eventually. But, like, if you're just, like, the boyfriend, like, duh, you're not their dad.

01:45:43.730 — 01:45:45.320 · Speaker 1

And don't start hollering at them.

01:45:45.360 — 01:46:45.900 · Speaker 2

They don't owe you affection. They owe you a minimal amount of respect, but probably less than they owe strange adults. Um, because you're the one that's on their turf. Um, you know, uh, don't get mad and take it personally. If they don't like you, they are not under any obligation to like you. Right. You know, um, they don't have a choice in the matter.

This is being forced upon them. And, uh, try to have some level of understanding about that. And, um, you know, it's probably a good idea if they associate you coming around with something good, like getting, like, little gifts or whatever. Ice cream. So that that something that they can look forward to, um, as opposed to something that is just disruptive.

Right. Um, but, you know, those are kind of like some basic principles that I always thought about that most of which seem fairly obvious to me. But, you know, but I think a lot of people get wrong because they are,

01:46:46.940 — 01:47:02.300 · Speaker 2

um, afraid of losing control over their environment. Um, and, you know, nothing nothing creates a loss of control over your environment, like throwing a bunch of kids into, um. Yeah. But, you know, you just have to accept that.

01:47:02.340 — 01:48:05.970 · Speaker 1

Yeah. I think I think it's just such a testament to you. True. Because as you're talking about that, the thread through it is this isn't about you. Now, it's hard to look because your own life is about you. But like when you're in that situation, the relationship with the kids, it isn't about you certainly at first.

And everybody who has kids knows, like your own biological children. It's like it's about them ultimately. And you. That's the point. And don't you know, one recommendation I would give is like, don't expect these kids to fill up your cup. Don't expect them to make you feel good and better. It's too much expectation to put on a little pumpkin, and it's scary and it's hard.

And they've been through a lot. And like through your willingness to talk about selflessness, like your willingness to go into that situation and, and just be focused on what was best for them and like, look, everything you do for a mother's child, you do for her, right?

01:48:06.010 — 01:48:07.090 · Speaker 2

And she knows that.

01:48:07.130 — 01:48:59.999 · Speaker 1

She knows that well. And I think that that matters so much. And so many people don't get that. But every time your sweet with those kids, every time you take them for ice cream, every time you have patience, every time you sit down and play a chess game with them that you've already played 17 you don't want to do it again.

Every time you pretend to care about roadblocks, like whatever it is, it's such a gift to your woman so you can look at it as doing good for these kids, and you might get like, they don't appreciate it. They don't deserve it. Like they're little punks and they may be big old punks. Well, We experienced some punk behavior over the years.

Um, but you can also look at it as, hey, the benefit I get, the reward I get is that this gal is seeing me love these children who are an extension of her, and every time I love them, I love her and it

01:49:01.000 — 01:49:13.520 · Speaker 1

ensures her to you more. So if you want to be like really calculating, manipulative about it or not even but just like honest, it also really behooves you to be sweet with those kids because their mom will love you more.

01:49:13.560 — 01:50:04.790 · Speaker 2

Well, yeah. And I mean, and I would say not to not only do you should you not expect the things that you said, you shouldn't expect anything from these kids. I mean, they'll owe you anything. You shouldn't expect anything. Um, but it's not like you're I think you're kind of getting at. It's not, like, totally selfless, like.

And it is about you. Um, but what it is, is about, um, not being ruled by your emotions. As a grown up, it's about being an adult and, you know, having some self-control and having some understanding about where other people are coming from and, you know, controlling your behavior in a way that you want to and that you intend to, and being an intentional about it.

Um, which I think is kind of not that much to ask if an adult.

01:50:04.830 — 01:50:20.510 · Speaker 1

What I remember you talking about before treating treating kids, your philosophy of treating kids as people. Right. Not like these little, little, um, baby things, but like, just sort of they're an actual human being and relating to them like that does that. Do you remember talking about that?

01:50:20.590 — 01:50:43.780 · Speaker 2

Yeah. They're also not little adults, right? They're not like your friend, you know. They're not. They're not. But but they are you know, they're people with a, you know, the full suite of emotions and problems and stuff. Same as you. And if you can try to remember back to when you were a kid and what you were sort of, uh, you know, what that felt like and what your motivations were.

I think that helps.

01:50:43.820 — 01:51:21.180 · Speaker 1

Um, and I remember you. And this is just how you are as a person. So it may not occur to you how special it is. Like always being such a good listener. And if the kids were speaking, listening to them, remembering things they talked about, taking interest in what they were interested in, and it just takes a little bit of effort and thoughtfulness to do that, and taking on the empathetic role of them and like remembering to ask about the chess, remembering to ask about, you know, what, that football, little Giants football or whatever that was back then.

Um, they were they were playing the Little Football League.

01:51:22.220 — 01:51:23.260 · Speaker 2

Oh, the.

01:51:23.540 — 01:51:24.540 · Speaker 1

In San Antonio.

01:51:24.580 — 01:51:26.580 · Speaker 2

Yeah, it wasn't Pop Warner, but it was like that.

01:51:26.620 — 01:51:53.880 · Speaker 1

Yeah yeah yeah. The San Antonio version or remembering about, you know, soccer and stuff like that and asking them. And when I think back to That time period. Like before we got engaged. A couple other pro tips and pros. I mean, we're not really pros whatsoever except that we survived it. And, you know, we got one kid off to college doing great.

So I mean, we have at least one star on our coat. Like I'm envisioning us with, like, lieutenant colonel parenting things, right?

01:51:53.920 — 01:51:54.320 · Speaker 2

Totally.

01:51:54.360 — 01:52:01.080 · Speaker 1

We got, like, one. What is a very fancy lawyer? Uh, military dude get, like, a star or a bar. Do you know what makes.

01:52:01.080 — 01:52:02.240 · Speaker 2

Him think all kinds of things? Yeah.

01:52:02.280 — 01:52:08.439 · Speaker 1

Yeah. Like, anyway, so we got at least one of those other ones, TBD. Um, anyway. But

01:52:10.080 — 01:52:44.070 · Speaker 1

we didn't push it, and I think that that is. I mean, knowing myself now, it's very surprising about me, but I had the intuition and the sense to not rush anything. Yeah. Because I remember people saying maybe even my mom or something back then, like, well, he's going to have to get used to it, just have to get in the deep end, you know, like the deep end of parenting is like going to like, I don't know When we were very first dating family Christmas with little kids.

Uh, our very that so we would have been dating from February. But we didn't do Christmas together. We didn't do Thanksgiving together that first.

01:52:44.110 — 01:52:44.670 · Speaker 2

Not that first.

01:52:44.670 — 01:52:44.910 · Speaker 1

Year.

01:52:44.910 — 01:52:47.230 · Speaker 2

And I hadn't moved here yet.

01:52:47.270 — 01:52:53.510 · Speaker 1

Yeah, but that was the right move. Yeah. Um, it would have been too much. It's like I. And I remember saying.

01:52:53.830 — 01:52:55.190 · Speaker 2

That's very. Your mom also.

01:52:55.230 — 01:53:54.660 · Speaker 1

Yeah. Bless her. Um, but I was like, I'm not pushing Drew Bell into the deep end. Like. And even on the weekends back in, in the very beginning when we were dating and I lived on that one house on Eaton Street, remember you'd come down from Austin for the weekend and like, one of the nights we would when the kids were in town, one of the nights you would hang out with me and the kids, and then one of the nights you would go do something with a friend who lived in San Antonio or Ricardo or whatever.

And I remember even Ricardo being like, what's the deal? And I, I mean, surprising knowing me now, but that hand was like, look, he's just doing what he's doing. Like and I gave drew, I gave you your space to still maintain, sort of like your individuality and personhood without demanding, like, hey, you're in San Antonio, why don't you come over to the house?

Because there's all these kids here, and you still get to have those moments where you're not a part of that. And I think us being willing to let each other do what each other was doing without rushing any of it or ever rushing them into it, was the key to our success, do you think?

01:53:54.780 — 01:54:07.420 · Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, I think I think so. I mean, um, there was part of that that was also like, you know what? What do you want the kids to see about, like staying over at the house?

01:54:07.460 — 01:54:08.220 · Speaker 1

Oh, well, yeah.

01:54:08.420 — 01:54:22.420 · Speaker 2

So that was because this what you're talking about was at the beginning, I remember that. Um, and so that was an element to it too. And I don't know that there's any hard and fast like, right thing to do there. I think you just have to figure out what's best for you. But.

01:54:22.460 — 01:54:23.060 · Speaker 1

Well, for us.

01:54:23.060 — 01:54:24.300 · Speaker 2

I think that was best for us.

01:54:24.340 — 01:54:35.690 · Speaker 1

Yeah. One of the rules we had was, um, we weren't going to move in together until we got engaged, because to me, I knew once drew got engaged there would be no backing out. Like that's his word. Drew always keeps his word.

01:54:36.330 — 01:54:37.690 · Speaker 3

Oh, I love you.

01:54:37.970 — 01:54:38.810 · Speaker 2

I love you, too.

01:54:38.970 — 01:55:01.890 · Speaker 1

Um. And so I knew once we were engaged, he would keep his word. We weren't going to be, like, breaking up. So that was a rule for us. And then another rule was whenever drew stayed over, we didn't sleep in the same bed. Like one of the kids. Like one of the boys. You you slept in their bed and then or some. Or Lucy's had the bigger bed.

Maybe. Maybe some kid's bed or something. You slept in and they slept with me. Um.

01:55:01.930 — 01:55:03.410 · Speaker 2

And we slept into Lucy's.

01:55:03.450 — 01:56:06.120 · Speaker 1

Yeah, we slept in different rooms, um, until we were engaged, because I was like, look, you know, if you're sleeping in there in the bed with me, it's like, that's like the dad's spot. And I think it would feel to them like a divorce all over again. And you can just walk away, bro. Um, you can just leave, and until you're not going to go.

Like, once we're engaged, that's how we're doing it. And we we maintained that we never once slipped ever the whole time until we got engaged. Then we all moved in together, and then that's when we went off for the the secondment. Yes. Semester away situation. Um, but I think that was really important to it working for us.

Now let's do that. Let's fast forward a little bit. And so this was sort of in the early on. And this is just our thoughts on how you begin to integrate. It would be a completely different story of drew would have been, you know, divorced with his own kids. That is a whole lot harder because then you got to integrate a whole different set of things.

Another co-parent. Um, oof, that would have been.

01:56:06.120 — 01:56:19.240 · Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's harder on the whole unit. I think in I think, you know, it might be easier on like the dad. Right. Who already has kids.

01:56:19.240 — 01:56:20.960 · Speaker 1

Yeah. But then he's got to worry about his kids and.

01:56:21.120 — 01:56:24.200 · Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, I know that it's a different set of problems. Yeah.

01:56:24.240 — 01:57:15.820 · Speaker 1

Choose your heart, I guess. Um, um, now. Okay, so let's think about once we were engaged. So we had like told the world we're going to be together forever. And what happened for us is we got engaged. And oh, I'll back up one little thing. What we ended up doing was our own kind of like a quote unquote version of like, a little bit me moving, like living with you in Austin.

Meaning this is like, more theory than anything, but it was symbolic for us was we like, I left stuff at Drew's place in Austin, and when the kids weren't with me, um, we would when the kids weren't with us. Right. We would try to be wherever the other one was on all the other days, like we were making that effort sort of before we officially lived together when we were engaged.

So like, I would come up to Austin a couple days a week, you would come down to San Antonio a day or two a week, and we sort of made that work.

01:57:15.860 — 01:57:16.900 · Speaker 2

There was a lot of driving.

01:57:16.940 — 01:58:09.050 · Speaker 1

It was so much, um, but giving us time to kind of get used to each other in that way to make sure, like we were trying to be really careful about these kids. Drew was always sensitive to that. And I mean, I can say this, it's kind of like jumping the gun a little bit. But one thing about you, drew that I think made this whole thing work ultimately is not once, even for a moment.

Have you made me choose between you and the kids? Yeah. Ever in every situation, you you you supported me doing absolutely everything I needed to do for the kids. It was never like, well, and it wasn't even like, you know, as obvious as no ultimatum, like, do this or that or you'll lose me. It wasn't even like that.

It was like, even in the smallest subtleties. Like it was never a question for me.

01:58:09.170 — 01:58:16.209 · Speaker 2

Well, and and you never put me in a position where that would have happened. I mean, you know, it also

01:58:17.610 — 01:58:23.450 · Speaker 2

just, I mean, it would not be a good position for me to have been in, right? I mean, you know,

01:58:24.520 — 01:58:31.200 · Speaker 2

I don't like. I don't like your chances. If you're a guy out there and you put yourself in between a mom and her kids.

01:58:31.360 — 01:59:00.480 · Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean, but I think that, like, what that can do is rip a woman apart. I've known friends who it's like. And maybe this is once they're already married and they're already all kind of in this new situation where they do feel like they have to choose between their new spouse or take a side. Right. Maybe like choose, like ultimately choose.

But to take a side where like, oh, the kids and the in the new partner are fighting. Yeah. And then they both kind of look at mom, like, whose side are you going to be on?

01:59:00.520 — 01:59:01.040 · Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah.

01:59:01.080 — 02:00:07.790 · Speaker 1

It was we we've never, never ever, ever, ever once has ever happened. And it's, it's a, it's a high bar to live up to y'all. And it's made all the difference for us. And I think what that does too, is it doesn't put the kids in the position of feeling like they're in a contest, or that sometimes their mom might have to suffer to choose them.

And I think that's the other thing. Like, I would have always, of course, chosen my children, period. The end of the story. And I'm glad they didn't feel like there was a war on me to do that, because kids don't want their momma to hurt, you know? They don't want that. Um, okay. So fast forward a little bit. We're engaged and living together for real.

And let's just talk a little bit about that transition when all of a sudden single in a town, drew Bell now has all these kids in the house and sometimes they come down. The boys come down wearing his his gym shorts. Yeah, yeah. It still happens every once in a while. Yeah. Um, and can you talk a little bit about what that was like for you, maybe any missteps or any words of advice that you might have?

02:00:07.830 — 02:00:16.310 · Speaker 2

Well, so this was and this was down in San Antonio. Um, you know, I mean, it was definitely a huge shift. I mean.

02:00:16.350 — 02:00:19.790 · Speaker 1

Because I think that's when our true family began.

02:00:19.830 — 02:00:32.540 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Right. I think that's fair. And I think that like, um, you know, uh, it couldn't have been really simple for you either. Um, but, yeah, I mean.

02:00:32.580 — 02:00:49.700 · Speaker 1

And the kids. Oh, we got to say that because we got engaged and the kids moved back in. That's what happened all at once. So we got engaged because we were our leases were up and all that, and we needed to all like we were going to move in together. And my deal was, I'm not moving together till we were getting engaged.

The engagement was a whole different other story we could tell someday.

02:00:49.820 — 02:00:50.300 · Speaker 2

Yeah.

02:00:50.300 — 02:00:50.740 · Speaker 1

Um.

02:00:51.420 — 02:00:53.580 · Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, if you want to, I know we'll.

02:00:53.580 — 02:01:03.460 · Speaker 1

Do it later. Yeah. This is a very, like, so trivial moment. Um, anyways, we move in together, we get engaged so that we. Well, we were going anyway.

02:01:03.500 — 02:01:11.540 · Speaker 2

Let's. So we got engaged when the kids were during their summer visitation, right? With their dad. So they weren't there.

02:01:11.580 — 02:01:12.140 · Speaker 1

Right.

02:01:12.180 — 02:01:16.100 · Speaker 2

So, yeah, we got engaged, and then they're coming back.

02:01:16.340 — 02:01:19.680 · Speaker 1

To move in for to primarily move to San Antonio with.

02:01:19.680 — 02:01:20.680 · Speaker 2

Us? Yes.

02:01:20.720 — 02:01:21.400 · Speaker 1

For good?

02:01:21.440 — 02:01:22.760 · Speaker 2

Yes. Right.

02:01:22.800 — 02:01:25.680 · Speaker 1

That was a period in life, wasn't it?

02:01:25.720 — 02:01:33.880 · Speaker 2

It was really wild. I mean, it was really, truly one of the most wild times I've ever had. Um, you know, um.

02:01:34.800 — 02:01:35.920 · Speaker 1

That's a whole different episode.

02:01:36.120 — 02:01:38.760 · Speaker 2

And we knew it was coming, but not for that long.

02:01:39.160 — 02:02:21.110 · Speaker 1

Yeah. No, we, you know. So what happened was I went back and there we filed a custody modification that kind of kept growing and turned into in Texas, we can have jury trials about custody. So there was a jury trial, and I was successful. So that meant the kids were relocating. So they had then had to flip and they had their like 30 days with dad came back very ill conceived plan on our part now.

But drew was wanting to tell the kids it was the first time we'd seen them. In a while. Drew was wanting to tell the kids like, hey, I asked your mom to marry me. Da da da, and all of that. So he tells him kind of the first time he got to see him. Well, I don't think we'd fully piece together.

02:02:21.150 — 02:02:21.790 · Speaker 2

I picked them.

02:02:21.790 — 02:02:26.790 · Speaker 1

Up. Yeah. Drew, you went to get him because you wanted to talk to him before they came home to this house. We're all in together, right?

02:02:26.830 — 02:02:27.910 · Speaker 2

This was our grand plan.

02:02:27.950 — 02:03:38.180 · Speaker 1

Yeah. It was so dumb. It's very. We would do it differently now. Yeah. And you're going to make mistakes. That's the thing. Like, I think we've done a really bang up job doing it. And we've made a lot of mistakes, too. Um, so drew goes to get them to tell them. Well, they're just leaving their dads, like, in their minds for good, you know, and moving back, which they all had very different emotions about that experience.

And Drew's like, oh, and by the way, we're engaged. It was that was one of the wilder days we've we've had. Yeah. But anyway, so then we're all living together. Okay. Now this is when you went. So we had a little bit of a break in the move in together and could ease in again because you drew went what's called seconded.

So his law firm loaned him to a client. And during the week he was like one of those. Dad's a travel dad. So he during the week was gone and working there and then came back San Antonio to home, where we all lived. We didn't have the apartment in Austin anymore and we were all there. So let's just talk about in general, drew.

So with us all living together for real all the time, we were sleeping in the same bed thing because we were engaged. So that was happening. Like, what was that like? Does anything stand out to you? Any words of counsel? Any words of warning?

02:03:38.220 — 02:03:40.900 · Speaker 2

Um, well, I mean, it

02:03:42.100 — 02:03:57.740 · Speaker 2

it was the first time when, you know, I mean, first of all, I'm living in this. My, my, my living space was not sort of totally up to me. Like what happened was not, like, up to me.

02:03:58.100 — 02:04:04.500 · Speaker 1

Yeah. Because before that, you'd been, like, you leave your grapefruit bowl out on the counter when you come home. It's still just be in that same spot.

02:04:04.540 — 02:04:05.500 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Right.

02:04:05.500 — 02:04:10.740 · Speaker 1

And so now you'd be like, where's the spoons? What happened to all the spoons?

02:04:10.780 — 02:04:19.409 · Speaker 2

And maybe it's a me thing, but, um, it takes. It was a huge change to go from that to not only living with you

02:04:20.450 — 02:04:31.170 · Speaker 2

full time, but, um, to, uh, to then also having these kids and their sneakers and everything is everywhere and and.

02:04:31.210 — 02:04:34.530 · Speaker 1

Oh, yeah, you know, that spot when you walk in by the door and everybody just drops all their shit?

02:04:34.570 — 02:04:47.730 · Speaker 2

Well, you're. Yeah, if you can open the door because the shoes are, you know, acting as a door jamb, um, you know, yes, you can, you can see the pile of shoes and, uh, you know.

02:04:47.770 — 02:04:50.650 · Speaker 1

And you were pretty, like, neat, orderly, tidy person.

02:04:50.690 — 02:05:01.050 · Speaker 2

Yeah. I don't love that. Um, you know, and so that that definitely just sort of the amount of people around in the amount of sort of,

02:05:02.210 — 02:05:16.520 · Speaker 2

you know, clutter that kids naturally create, um, you know, was definitely like a, like, stressful kind of thing for me. Also the like, you go, you come home. It's not necessarily like peaceful and quiet time.

02:05:16.760 — 02:05:18.840 · Speaker 1

It's because the kids were like.

02:05:18.880 — 02:05:19.400 · Speaker 2

Yeah.

02:05:19.440 — 02:05:26.080 · Speaker 1

Fourth and fifth and or like, like fifth and third and second grade, I think.

02:05:26.120 — 02:05:27.200 · Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah.

02:05:27.240 — 02:05:32.520 · Speaker 1

Who? Not the age with kids in the best of circumstances. That's the whole mood right there.

02:05:32.560 — 02:05:41.200 · Speaker 2

Yeah. And, um, you know, these weren't necessarily the best of circumstances or at least the easiest of circumstances. And, um.

02:05:41.960 — 02:05:58.800 · Speaker 1

We had a lot of emotions. We had a lot of anger. We got a lot of new school, new friends, new life. It was a lot of we had a lot of ongoing, you know, X factor drama, a lot of, you know, um,

02:06:00.040 — 02:06:10.960 · Speaker 1

why don't you say inner attack? I don't know, intervention, uh, like insurgent. I don't even know what to say. Well, without getting into the whole thing.

02:06:11.000 — 02:06:34.900 · Speaker 2

Yeah, Without getting into the whole thing, it's. It's hard to say exactly, but, um, there was just. You never knew exactly what you were walking into. Um, it was it was a little bit unpredictable, um, you know, and kids are always a little bit unpredictable, but this was, like, a lot unpredictable in your house.

Um, which was. Which was obviously a little uncomfortable. Um.

02:06:36.620 — 02:07:00.980 · Speaker 2

Uh, you know, but there were other things, too. Like you, you. It's not just like, which of the, uh, five things that I normally cook for myself for dinner and my making tonight for one person. Um, you know, you have to, you know, and I do a lot of the cooking, so, like, it's, it's sort of like, how are we cooking for this whole family?

And, you know, do the kids like exercising.

02:07:01.020 — 02:07:02.380 · Speaker 1

A vegetarian this week?

02:07:02.420 — 02:07:55.690 · Speaker 2

Right. And what, you know, and and who can eat what and and who will eat what. And, Um, you know, so that that just it just the logistical challenges were all kind of new to me as well. Um, but ultimately it taught me more of that sort of empathetic kind of thinking about what's best for our whole unit as opposed to just sort of like what I would personally maybe prefer at any particular point in time.

But I, I was happiest when everybody was happiest. Um, and when everyone was most content and taken care of, especially you. Um, and so my priorities sort of shifted. I mean, they had kind of been shifting anyway, but like,

02:07:56.890 — 02:08:01.930 · Speaker 2

you know, toward what can I do to help make that happen?

02:08:02.210 — 02:08:30.439 · Speaker 1

Um, yeah, I think that because now, you know, we've been a family for a long time, but back then, it was just the beginning of a family and we were newlyweds. And I think, you know, and this will probably be kind of almost as far as we get in our story. Right. Just thinking about this initial blend, because there's a lot more about being a co-parent as things go on.

But I think that what we did initially, though, that especially after everybody was living in the same house

02:08:31.480 — 02:10:18.540 · Speaker 1

when we were in San Antonio for about a year, we ended up moving from after that to Austin because it was kind of like now or never. The kids were just starting to make some pretty good friends. Um, all of some of their doctors and providers and things were turning over. It's a long story. But anyway, that was all changing.

So it was either we're leaving San Antonio right now and moving to Austin, which remember, I committed to drew. I would do or we're going to stay in San Antonio for until these kids graduated high school. Yeah. And we made the decision to come to Austin, which added a different set of things. But for just the San Antonio period, really what it was for us was, I think, an incubation as a family and and there were some adjustments.

I remember like it. It bugged me for sure at the time. Like, dude, there just sucks. Like, who cares what the boys wore? Them will wash them. But for drew, that was like his space, his things, sort of his own independence and sovereignty. I'd been a mom already for a long time, so I'm used to like no spaces, my own and kids stuff all over the place and in my them come into my room and I come out and some kid had my hairbrush or, you know, so I was used to this, but drew wasn't.

And I think there was that adjustment for us was probably the main adjustment. And then, you know, for better or for worse, we had a common threat in our life, right? You and I had a common threat to the peacefulness of our home, in the whole custody situation and everything that that continued. So there was much a unite against the common, you know, I mean, enemy is the wrong word, but you're not against the common problem.

Um, and I think that drew us. And that's one of the silver linings in all of this. If you are in the middle of a custody drama and you find your person who's willing to, like, get back to back with you in the foxhole, is that how you see that? Ah, look at.

02:10:18.540 — 02:10:19.220 · Speaker 2

Me. Very good.

02:10:19.260 — 02:10:54.940 · Speaker 1

Thanks. Um, back to back with you. Like in the foxhole. If you find your person in some ways, like you get. You cut through a lot of the bullshit in other relationships. Like, I'm kind of annoyed because you didn't, like, load your dishes, right? You're like, I'm sorry. We are dealing with a huge new motion that changes could change the course of our life.

Right now, we're not worried about who put the dishes in the wrong way. You know, just like it gives you some perspective. So I think for us, that period of time, the silver lining of the custody drama was we were we were down in the trenches. We knew exactly when we got married. We knew the character of the other person.

Fair enough.

02:10:54.980 — 02:10:55.580 · Speaker 2

Yeah, totally.

02:10:55.620 — 02:12:59.510 · Speaker 1

Because we were engaged about a year, year and a half after that. Um, we knew the character of the other person. We had a very lot of life in a relatively short period of time. And I'd seen drew and seen me getting really bad news, experiencing a really hard and bad day that I'm sure a lot of y'all have days like that, and I hope none of them are ever as bad as some of ours were.

When kids are really having a hard time, when you're having a really hard time, when you're scared and you're worried about money, and you're worried about whether your life is going to be changed beyond your control, will you ever have peace again? Will you ever have somebody not trying to take you down every second of every single day?

We lived through all of that, and I think it took us probably that first year to start to gel, just to begin to gel. So just kind of practical timing, you know, it takes us long to grow, begin to grow a family, at least as it does to grow a baby. Okay. So that's how I would think. Give yourself nine months to a year to start to feel a little bit like a unit.

And I think for us we had a natural transition point because we moved to Austin, and so that began the next phase of our life as a family. But I think phase one for us ends whenever we left San Antonio because we'd we'd come together as a crew started to gel, some of the egos had started to chill out. And I think also the function of time and I'll, we'll leave you all on this part with this is time is your friend in the co-parenting situation?

Because these are all just little peoples and relationships grow and develop. Moment by moment, then day by day, then week by week, year by year. And they are like a fine wine. They do get better with age, I think. Relationships too. We know this being married now and been together now for 11 years. Going on?

Yes. Um, married for less than that, obviously. But.

02:13:01.020 — 02:13:01.980 · Speaker 1

We just celebrated our.

02:13:01.980 — 02:13:03.780 · Speaker 4

Seven years married.

02:13:04.060 — 02:13:12.660 · Speaker 1

Um, and their relationship with the kids. Your own individual relationship with each kid? I think you treated each one differently.

02:13:13.580 — 02:13:14.580 · Speaker 2

They are different.

02:13:14.620 — 02:13:15.180 · Speaker 1

Yeah.

02:13:15.220 — 02:13:15.540 · Speaker 2

Um.

02:13:15.660 — 02:13:51.700 · Speaker 1

And we the time moved forward, and that really began to build. And I think apart from being nice to them. So their mom would love you if whatever the motivation, you know, if you made it just that black and white at the beginning. I think what ended up happening is you start to love them independently. Right.

As time goes on, as your own little people, even if you're not necessarily at that point seeing them as your kids. And I think it's too much to ask of somebody there to from get go to see these kids from your prior marriage as their kids. Like right away.

02:13:51.740 — 02:14:34.610 · Speaker 2

Yeah, I do think that's too much to ask of people. It is because, you know, and and I know this now from having our own, uh, like, together. I mean, so much of that bonding, that kind of parental bonding happens when they're babies. Um, and completely dependent on you. And, uh, you know, I never had that with the other kids.

And so, I mean, I definitely felt like they were my family and that, you know, and I loved and cared for them. But I felt all of those things long before I felt they were my kids. Now I feel that way now.

02:14:35.570 — 02:15:10.320 · Speaker 1

Um, because back then we thought of it a little bit more like like their relationship was more akin to, like, an uncle, right? Remember, it's how we kind of talk about it in the beginning. Yeah. At first of, like, with your nieces and nephews, you would give them money, you would give them support, you would go and get them at jail.

If something happen to them, you would give them advice if they asked. But ultimately, like it's your siblings call, it's their parent's call. Right. You're sort of like, hands up. Not really my deal now. That's why time is on your side. Because, like you said, now I think it's, you know, you see those kids as your kids, too.

02:15:10.360 — 02:15:48.480 · Speaker 2

Yeah. And that's and that is largely a function of time. And, um, you know, I've now known them, uh, most of their lives, right? I mean, we've just gone through a lot of things together with them, and so that that can happen. But I think it's it's too much to expect of someone else. And it's definitely too much to expect of yourself to, like, feel that way at first.

And like, you know, I just don't think it helps anybody to pretend, uh, like it's something it's not. Um, when what it is is not bad, right?

02:15:48.760 — 02:16:33.740 · Speaker 1

Yeah, it just is different. And I think that I think that that part, the way that we handled that was really smart of us and allowed room for it to organically turn into those Aunt Hannah's kids. There are kids right now and not discounting that they have a dad like none of that. It's not an either or. It's just that over a long period of time, their relationship shifts and us having a baby who is their sibling also just adds to that, right?

It adds a level of of unit solidarity or something to whenever we had Penny. So. Okay. Drew. Well, I guess that's where we'll sort of on that take everybody. There's so many more things to talk about in the some juicier stuff and what we did as they grew up and things like that.

02:16:33.780 — 02:16:34.780 · Speaker 2

What a cliffhanger.

02:16:34.820 — 02:16:35.260 · Speaker 4

Whew.

02:16:35.620 — 02:17:02.130 · Speaker 1

I know, um, all right. But now true. So we asked the same questions of everybody and you're not excluded. Um, the show is obviously called not saving it for later. Okay. And I found that that phrase is pretty evocative for people. It it brings up something. Maybe they're immediately convicted about something that they save for later.

Later, or several guests have talked about. Um. Oh, no, they never say anything for later, obviously, because you just live right now. So where do you fall on that continuum?

02:17:02.410 — 02:17:59.080 · Speaker 2

I say things for later all the time, although I'm trying not to. I'm trying not to. Especially as I get older. Um, you know, there's this, um, this book that we've both read, um, called Die With Zero. And, uh, you know, it's really changed the way that that I've thought of this. I mean, it's it's it's easy to go through life thinking like you're doing the smart thing when you're, uh, literally saving for later, right?

Money and so forth, and, and and deferring, like, you know, expensive experiences and things like that because you don't want to be irresponsible. And you think about all the compound interests you'll be missing out on and things like that, and, uh, all that exciting stuff. But like at a certain point, Especially as you get older.

It later is now, you know. You know, it's it's it's it's later. Welcome to later.

02:17:59.120 — 02:17:59.400 · Speaker 1

Yeah.

02:17:59.440 — 02:19:38.270 · Speaker 2

You're here and, um, so, uh, you know, you just have to be fine. Figure out what that balance is and think about it, actually, because there are things you can do now when you're young enough that you're not going to be able to do later. There's no reason to save those things for later, because there will be no later for those things.

Um, you know, if you want to learn how to snowboard, um, you know, if you want to, uh, scale Kilimanjaro, right? You should probably do it now. Or at least sooner rather than later. Um, because, you know, those those options won't be options. Uh, before too long. Um, which is part of the message of that book, it's not to be irresponsible or to like, you know, people say, well, how would you live if if there were no tomorrow.

I mean, I don't think that's a very responsible way to live. Um, but, um. But it does mean. Think about what you know. What what you want your life to look like. And if there are things that you have to do now that you want to be in, in your life, you know, don't hold back on them. Uh, just because, you know, maybe they're more expensive than you would expect or, um, you know, maybe it'll hurt your retirement savings because what are you saving for?

I mean, you should be saving for now. And, uh. Uh, so I'm trying to be better about that because it's not my natural way. Um, so I guess as a Broadway, that's that's what I would say is I totally save things for later, but I'm trying to save less for later.

02:19:38.310 — 02:20:06.780 · Speaker 1

Yeah. Hey, that guy was zero book. We'll have to link that for sure, because that has been so transformative for us in our marriage. The way we think about money and the way we think about how we're doing things and getting on the same page about that has been super important. Okay. Well, related. The next question is what's shaken you like?

Is there any book? I mean, I know we just talked about that one that we read a while back, like book, podcast, TV show, anything like that that we need to be thinking about a quote you saw recently that's kind of shaking you up.

02:20:06.820 — 02:20:50.240 · Speaker 2

Hmm. Well let's see. Um, I think in terms of shaking me up, um, I mean, right now it's I know we're not we're not wearing our pumpkin shirts right now, but it is around. Uh, it is actually Halloween when we're recording this. So, um, around Halloween, I like to I like to sort of, um, read some, like, uh, sort of Halloween sort of themed short stories.

And so right now I'm reading these short stories by Daphne du Maurier, who's one of my favorite writers. Um, and it's called Don't Look Down Other Stories. So it's five short stories. Um, I'm only through two of them, but, anyway, it's just a profit for the season and they're fun.

02:20:50.280 — 02:21:15.880 · Speaker 1

Yeah, true. Always so good at holidays and traditions. And he is definitely the tradition. Sort of like, um, team spirit holiday spirit holder at our house. So yeah, that's no surprise you're doing that. Okay. What about your dominant thought? What's been your dominant thought? Um, of recent. We've had a lot going on in our lives right now.

So overarching thought the last few weeks, the last few days, even.

02:21:15.880 — 02:21:21.240 · Speaker 2

Um, well, um, aside from some,

02:21:22.320 — 02:21:41.800 · Speaker 2

some, uh, move we're making, which maybe we don't need to talk about, but, uh, yeah, I mean, we're we're we're moving into a new house soon. So, um, you know, that's that's been a dominant thought for us and what our, um, you know, what, our kind of new. It's not just a new house. That's it's going to be a new way of life.

02:21:41.840 — 02:21:43.200 · Speaker 4

We're going to have a garden.

02:21:43.240 — 02:21:45.400 · Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah. And and.

02:21:45.750 — 02:21:49.310 · Speaker 1

As our daughter tells us all the time, we're going to grow a lot of fruits and veggies.

02:21:49.550 — 02:21:51.710 · Speaker 2

Yes. That's right. You're going to be farmer girls.

02:21:51.750 — 02:21:53.510 · Speaker 1

Yeah, we're going to be farmer girls forever.

02:21:53.550 — 02:22:32.430 · Speaker 2

Um, and it's just, you know what? What? All the possibilities. We. It's a house that an a property that that allows us to have a lot of possibilities. Um, yeah. You know, a lot of. And I think we're planning to be there forever. So Hannah and I may die in that house. Um, and, you know, uh, it's an expansive way to think about our lives, to think about, um, what we can do to the house to make the rest of our lives there.

You know, as amazing as possible. Um, and I've never moved into a place thinking that this is the last time I'm going to do this, but I'm really, really excited about that.

02:22:32.470 — 02:22:34.030 · Speaker 3

Yeah. Me too.

02:22:34.590 — 02:22:47.940 · Speaker 1

All right, last question. Closing thoughts. If you were going to tell the women of divorced land. So those of us before, during and after divorce. One thing. What would you tell us?

02:22:48.060 — 02:22:56.180 · Speaker 2

Um. Well, I think I would tell you, you know, don't be afraid.

02:22:57.260 — 02:22:57.940 · Speaker 2

Um.

02:22:58.980 — 02:24:21.650 · Speaker 2

Which is easy for me to say, not being a divorced woman myself. Um, but having seen enough of it to say, you know, I think it's easy to be afraid of the legal process. Um, yeah. I think it's easy to be afraid of your ex-husband, um, or your ex-wife or whoever it is. Um, you know, what are they going to do next? You know, how are they going to come after me?

This and that. It's easy to be afraid of. What? Um, you know, your life and your relationship prospects can look like after divorce. It's hard. It's easy to be afraid. Of what? You know, what divorce is going to do to your kids. Um, and I think I would just say that while those things are all things to be aware of and to plan for and can be scary, um, I think don't be afraid of any of them because they can all go just fine.

Um, you know, the legal process. It is what it is. It may or may not go your way. It's probably not going to go at least 100% your way. Um, but, you know, your ex-spouse is probably just as afraid of it as you are. Um, and,

02:24:22.770 — 02:25:12.480 · Speaker 2

you know, um, it is what it is. It's just a necessary part of the process that every single person who's gotten divorced has gone through to one degree or another. And, you know, they're still standing. Um, you know, don't be afraid of your ex-spouse. If it's a if it's a high conflict Situation. Um, probably get a lawyer, but.

And listen to your lawyer. But also my advice as a lawyer is, is you will have opportunities to take it to them. Um, you are not powerless in that situation. Um, and, um, you know, stand up for yourself. And don't don't assume that just because they say something is going to go a certain way, that that's the way it is.

Amen. Um, you know, you know,

02:25:13.880 — 02:25:28.640 · Speaker 2

be be be courageous and and stand up for what you think is right. I mean, don't be stupid, but, like, um, but they're not. They're just sort of not the boss of you anymore. That's why you're leaving?

02:25:28.680 — 02:25:29.800 · Speaker 4

Um, yeah, I love that.

02:25:29.800 — 02:25:32.120 · Speaker 1

I think that's a good way to say it. They're not the boss of you.

02:25:32.160 — 02:25:32.840 · Speaker 2

Yeah.

02:25:33.120 — 02:25:33.880 · Speaker 4

It's a point.

02:25:33.920 — 02:26:23.620 · Speaker 2

You know, with your kids, like. Yeah, it's going to be hard on them. Probably. um, to one degree or another. Um, but it's probably not going to be as hard on them as it would be if you stayed in a situation that was really bad for you. And, um, well, it is bad for the it could be bad for them now. Long term, it will probably be better for them.

Um, you know, and we've certainly seen that um, and especially if, if you do all the, um, and no one's going to do all the right things all the time. But if you try to, you know, have their interests in mind above your own, uh, that's the way Hannah's always done it. Uh, it's why she's such a fantastic mom. Um, they're going to turn out just fine.

So,

02:26:24.820 — 02:26:29.660 · Speaker 2

um, anyway, I guess that's my message. That's kind of a long message.

02:26:29.700 — 02:26:46.890 · Speaker 1

That's good. Yeah. Take heart. Be of good courage. And then at the boss of you. That's literally the point. I love that. I mean, I remember having to beat that in my own head. Like, they're not the boss of me. They're not the boss of me, you know? I don't have to do what you say anymore. That's it. Yeah. It's the best.

02:26:46.930 — 02:26:51.450 · Speaker 2

Well, and, like, just because they say the sky is orange doesn't make it so.

02:26:51.490 — 02:27:28.610 · Speaker 1

It's hard. It's hard when you've been trusting that person. And in that relationship, the law even makes it in. At least in Texas, a fiduciary relationship one of trust and confidence. And to shift from that is not easy. So I think that reminder y'all drew knows what he's talking about. He's the best lawyer that I know and has lived an up close, front row slash in the middle of it life for over ten years of drama in this area, so he knows what he speaks of.

So true. Thank you for coming and doing this. Um, I think it's the first of many times there's so many other things I want to talk about to share with people this stuff that we've been through. So thanks for doing it.

02:27:28.650 — 02:27:30.890 · Speaker 2

Yeah. Well. Thank you. This was great. Yeah.